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Tony R 
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 Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:26 |
I'm good Brian.
Wonder when M@x is going to invest his millions in the Greatest Prog Festival Ever?
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Epignosis
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 19:25 |
 Tony R wrote:
They should have gotten Epignosis on the bill. Then there would be no ticket sale problems! |
Aww, thanks man!  
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twosteves
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Joined: May 01 2007
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:06 |
Tony R wrote:
It's very sad but if you are going to market yourself as a Prog Rock Festival then you really need to have a line up that is recognisably Prog. It's all very well blaming Prog fans for being stuck in their ways and maybe stuck in the 70s but that is what it is and if they did not buy tickets in sufficient numbers then the festival organisers messed up. It's as simple as that. You can't expect Prog fans to shell out big bucks for something they don't recognise as Prog.
To me this whole clusterf**k is symptomatic of the ridiculous fallacy that Prog Rock and Rock that is progressive are the same. Here's proof that they aren't.
So everyone loses.
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Agree 100%---
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:08 |
I think we've agreed already that what kills the festivals is their attempt to "stay prog"...
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Tony R
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:15 |
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CharAznable
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:24 |
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It's THREE DAYS of music. You can very well please everyone, and they've done so very successfully until now.
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:32 |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:43 |
TechnicallySpeaking wrote:
My dream lineup for a festival:
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Go for the gusto ... !
Mike Oldfield
Vangelis
Ryuichi Sakamoto
Klaus Schulze
Roy Harper
Peter Hammill (not VdGG!)
Manuel Gottsching
Egberto Gismonti
Keith Jarrett
... as far as rock bands on a festival, I can safely say that there is only a handful I would dearly love to see these days ... they are:
Djam Karet
Porcupine Tree (already seen them once in 1999)
Zappa plays Zappa or Dweezil on his own not doing a daddy impression!
Terje Rypdal
Some of the things that I would love to catch and see ... that I think would be massive and fun and different. have a festival do one of those question and answer things with some of these people ... and the ones that I would love to hear and talk to would be -- and you would not have to bring a band along either! They are welcome to play if they want to one but hopefully it would be nothing but an appreciation hour or two for that person to say hello and talk about their art ... it would be something totally massive and different ... and sort of like the ending of the "Actor's Studio" thing on the Bravo Channel. I just hope that we are not creative and clever enough or too old and f**ked up, to even try doing something different and far out.
Daevid Allen
Robert Wyatt
Kevin Ayers
Richard Pinhas
Robert Fripp
Mani Neumeier
Holger Czukay
Christian and Stella Vander
... and this would be a lot less expensive than trying to bring over a lot of equipment and whatever else the person/band needs.
Not to mention that it would add something else to the whole evening that otherwise -- would be more interesting in regards to the music and its history ... than it would the "progressive" thing ... I'm not sure we need to see Robert play again on a stage ... or any of these folks ... but it would be nice to get a better idea of their talent and learning and what brought them here and how and why ... we might have a lot of fun hearing all these stories.
And then ... the newer bands ... I'm not sure that I would enjoy the Umphrey's ... comment ... specially if I was in the band and trying hard to get out there and "make it" ... but it gives you an idea of how picky and sometimes really full of sh*t, we are when it comes to our own tastes ... notice that the interview section I listed is the grand-daddy list ... and the play list is much younger ...
Sad to see someone hammer that band ... and it was the same thing in 1999 at the SF Show I went to ... someone hammered Lana Lane and the Rocket Scientists, and they put on the most professional, tightest, and well rehearsed show of all that whole Saturday ... and they deserved a lot more than they got ... but they got ... ohh they are some band from LA, too metal ... or some of the craziest poop you ever heard.
In the end, it is about the love and respect of the music ... and as you can see, we do not have ENOUGH respect for the music itself in order to appreciate other bands showing what they can do ... and that is, by far, one of the saddest things, that even this board is a part of ... creating an atmosphere where the top ten dinosaurs are good adn the rest isn't ... and no one can live up to that and succeed. And in the end, it ends up hurting festivals and any chance of many of these bands coming around ...
Oh well ... it's the American culture ... let's go watch American Idol ... !!! Who the f**k cares about progressive or prog anyway?
We're at fault as much as they are ... and I find it sad that we're accusing them of bad taste, specially when they have a phenomenal record of the bands they brought in for our appreciation ... and you folks over there at the Nearfast ... that person, does NOT speak for me! I would have seen that band and all the others and given them their due and fair listen!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 21:13 |
cstack3 wrote:
I wish we could do something like Nearfest in Chicago! We have prog groups blow through all the time (Yes just last weekend), and we have a ton of local prog talent, particularly of the jazz-rock fusion brand.
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I think that we have to go back to the old days ... and find a park, and play every Saturday afternoon ... until all of a sudden ... several thousands are there and you are selling 500 CD's every weekend ... and watch a record distribution outfit show up at your door next week!
I really think that waiting for Nearfest, or ProgArchives or anyone else, or anything else, to carry you to dreamland and starland, is facile, and worse than star dreams at American Fool or American Idiot ... !!!
Basically ... you have to know how to invest in yourself ... and if I have to show up with my band on Central Park, or in the Bears parking lot, I will damn it ... but you will remember it! Right or wrong. But thinking that I would have to wait for the fame? ... right ...
Chicago is an excellent place for music, although I always thought that it was a bit too conventional for my tastes ... we had better taste for music and new stuff in Madison, than there was in Chicago ... but Chicago was cool enough to have Ravi Shankar and Yehudi Menuhin ... and that is something that Madison did not have ... and even folks here in PA probably don't know what what was all about or its value! Even to progressive and experimental music!
But you CAN NOT ... depend on the regular avenues for doing this, or the regular advertising ... you have to have the guts and balls and verve, to stand up and be counted and then noticed ... or it will not happen! And I'm not sure that those single sheets on every pole across town is enough, or a good thing, other than trashing the town ... and I can not tell you of a single concert I ever went to ... because of a single sheet poster on a street pole!
Awareness is a one on one thing, and I don't have affairs with a street pole ... so there ... lesson on advertising right there!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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TechnicallySpeaking
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Joined: October 30 2010
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 21:42 |
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moshkito, I hope that you didn't think my comment on it all about personal tasts was intended to say the NEARFEST organizers have bad taste. On the contrary, I was trying to point out that I AM one of the old fart who actually saw Yes play in the round the first time, And peter Gabriel on the stage with Genesis and I enjoy seeing the new bands very much. I have been to half of the dozen NEARFESTs, and every single one of them was exceptional. With a couple of exceptions I likes the new and the old. I will still listen to Trick of the Tail from beginging to end, but will also listen to Ulver - In the Red or Opeth - Ghost Reveries and enjoy it all. In fact, I also love Jazz; Miles Davis, Chick Corea, Dizzy Gillespie - but that's another story all together. Again, it's all about the music (not an idea of what it is supposed to be).
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cstack3
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 23:28 |
moshkito wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
I wish we could do something like Nearfest in Chicago! We have prog groups blow through all the time (Yes just last weekend), and we have a ton of local prog talent, particularly of the jazz-rock fusion brand.
... |
I think that we have to go back to the old days ... and find a park, and play every Saturday afternoon ... until all of a sudden ... several thousands are there and you are selling 500 CD's every weekend ... and watch a record distribution outfit show up at your door next week!
I really think that waiting for Nearfest, or ProgArchives or anyone else, or anything else, to carry you to dreamland and starland, is facile, and worse than star dreams at American Fool or American Idiot ... !!!
Basically ... you have to know how to invest in yourself ... and if I have to show up with my band on Central Park, or in the Bears parking lot, I will damn it ... but you will remember it! Right or wrong. But thinking that I would have to wait for the fame? ... right ...
Chicago is an excellent place for music, although I always thought that it was a bit too conventional for my tastes ... we had better taste for music and new stuff in Madison, than there was in Chicago ... but Chicago was cool enough to have Ravi Shankar and Yehudi Menuhin ... and that is something that Madison did not have ... and even folks here in PA probably don't know what what was all about or its value! Even to progressive and experimental music!
But you CAN NOT ... depend on the regular avenues for doing this, or the regular advertising ... you have to have the guts and balls and verve, to stand up and be counted and then noticed ... or it will not happen! And I'm not sure that those single sheets on every pole across town is enough, or a good thing, other than trashing the town ... and I can not tell you of a single concert I ever went to ... because of a single sheet poster on a street pole!
Awareness is a one on one thing, and I don't have affairs with a street pole ... so there ... lesson on advertising right there! |
Good stuff, thanks! Prog bands, wether big-name or local, tend to blow through the smaller venues....I saw John Goodsall, Percy Jones & their bands in a tiny bar in Chicago called "Martyrs," and Tony Levin & Adrian Belew also played that place. Gong played the Cubby Bear bar, Nebel Nest at Schuba's Tavern, and the Yes concert a couple weeks ago was at House of Blues, etc.
Local guys include Kick The Cat (jaw-dropping fusion!), Grand Parade (they do a lot of 70's stuff from many bands), a bunch of tribute bands and a few other acts that have decent fan followings.
Check this out - Chicago's own Fareed Haque, sitting in with California Guitar Trio!
I don't know the scene in Madison for squat, but I love the town! University towns tend to have more of the creative energy, we had Starcastle in Champaign when I was getting my BS from UI. I'll have to check into it!
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Harry Hood
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Points: 1305
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 00:28 |
Wait Umphrey's were playing this? They usually draw a huge crowd and have a ton of followers. Ticket sales from their followers alone should have been more then enough. Or was this festival not advertised to the jam band scene?
The jam band scene has a ton of people who love prog and don't even know it yet. I'm honestly surprised more artists aren't reaching out to that community. I know a lot of jam band fans who love prog and don't even know it yet.
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TechnicallySpeaking
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 00:47 |
The NEARFEST crowd would have liked Umphreys MCgee live. Unlike something like Phish, UM has a very strong progressive overlay and the musicianship is outstanding. Yes the do improv a bit, but in a complex Jazz like way. They do pink floyd covers! They are typically played on prog internet radio stations. I have not really understood why having them in the line up was an issue. I can tell you from year of going to NEARFEST though was the quality of the unknown newbie acts that have surpise the crowd with excellence at the 11AM opennings.
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 28059
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 02:03 |
micky wrote:
richardh wrote:
very interesting read. The High Voltage festival although not designated a 'prog festival' as such does have a prog stage and is about 'nostalgia acts'. They recognise that this is the only way to pull in the punters. However their first year despite having prog legends ELP still fell a long way short of selling out (something like 18000 tickets were sold for Sunday when the capacity would have allowed near 30,000- at least no queue for the toilets!). This year is crucial and will be interesting to see whether the festival can build on last year. Dream Theater is now the headline act. Will that attract more people given that they are a more modern contemporary prog band? Will have to wait and see. |
very interesting indeed. I met him through Raff's facebook page (shes the one more involved in the behinds the scene action than I am) and he had some interesting views on the state of things prog, then saw his post over on PE's. Thought it was an interesting and essential view (from a working member of a current act today) and should be shared.
I'll be curious myself to see how High Voltage goes this year. After hearing some private thoughts given to Raff by people close to the situation there, I have very deep fears for the future of Nearfest and live festivals here in the states. I could care less for the old timers, they had their time in the sun and obviously can get people to show up for their shows. I think Jacob was right, it might well be time for a split, for the new bands to think about carving their own paths. AWAY from associating themselves with prog rock. Prog rock to too many, those who have the money to invest in it, it is a very narrow and backward view of prog. Today's generation I believe cares a great deal less about tags and labels than many who call themselves prog fans. UM didn't care if they were playing a prog fest or not.. like I often like to say... the 14 year old girls next to me at the HoL concert last year would have gone WFT are you talking aboutt if I had asked them what they thought about prog rock? In it's own funny way it harkens back to what prog so great in the 70's (and the whole 70's muscial scene) it was the days before the industry slapped tags and labels on everything where you might go to a ELP concert one night, and the Stevie Wonder the next. Perhaps with the download era and the manifest decrease in the power and reach of the recording industry.. that we have reached some point where tags and labels just don't matter one iota to today's engaged listeners.
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I remember Deep Purple being interviewed many years ago and they beomoaned the passing of those early days of rock music when people were much more open and accepting of different things.
But I tend to think that fans then were 'spoilt' to some extent simply because there were so many talented musicians who had their own vision. I'm not just talking the ELP's and Genesis type bands of course but also people like Stevie Wonder (as mentioned) and the odd bands like Roxy Music who were a bit 'left field'. So whats changed? I suspect it was just the passing of a great era in music and the unwelcome intrusion of the media (critics and TV) into what is essentially an artistic process. Music just doesn't fly anymore and that perhaps refelcts now in the quality of bands that are around. The festival organisers can only do what they can with whats available.
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Tony R
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 06:43 |
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 07:12 |
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So you can't offer a valid opinion on organizing prog festivals unless you've organized prog festivals? In that case everyone here is talking out of their range of knowledge.
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micky
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 09:55 |
Garion81 wrote:
The prog label is thing that needs to die a quick death so the music can survive. Back in the 70's it was all still Rock music but certain bands seemed linked to one another but the wholesale lumping didn't happen until later in the decade.
We need music to get back to that kind of diversity. |
I think it already is fwiw and lot of that has to do with the digital age, and the 'at a click' nature of getting music. If one is not exactly constrained by cost to check music out people can and I suspect are more free to explore not to mention the internet making word of mouth much easier these days. That lumping obviously still exists at some level, very much where the record industry has still considerable sway. However since the recording industry obviously has like zippo interest in trying to market (ie.. lump together) many of today's progressive group they are more free. .and do .. reach a wider audience. Music to them these days, is probably just as it was to you back in the day, Good music is... good music. Unfortunately I think prog fans are sort of stuck in the old way of thinking. That old irony again. It's like I mentioned earlier.. did any of those kids I saw at the Decemberists show really care one iota if they were digging a fantastic prog concert. I doubt that, and probably would have looked you as if you had two heads if you had mentioned it. It was great music that happened to be prog... that is where prog will survive. With or without festivals. Will festivals get with the times.. and stop being the prog world equilvalent of the record industry....we'll see.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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moshkito
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 16:14 |
TechnicallySpeaking wrote:
... On the contrary, I was trying to point out that I AM one of the old fart who actually saw Yes play in the round the first time, And peter Gabriel on the stage with Genesis and I enjoy seeing the new bands very much. I have been to half of the dozen NEARFESTs, and every single one of them was exceptional. With a couple of exceptions I likes the new and the old. I will still listen to Trick of the Tail from beginging to end, but will also listen to Ulver - In the Red or Opeth - Ghost Reveries and enjoy it all. In fact, I also love Jazz; Miles Davis, Chick Corea, Dizzy Gillespie - but that's another story all together. Again, it's all about the music (not an idea of what it is supposed to be). |
I do think that we have to rejuvenate ourselves a little more ... but that's me ... I find some of the new music really helpful in that area ... and I'm 60!
To me, a lot of the old ones, are still the same, and they stopped growing. Too much of their work has become a different note on the same work they were doing before ... and that usually loses it for me. I think that at this point I would rather Daevid Allen spent an hour having tea with us, than playing old Gong standards again ... and if he wants to break into a singalong, or a song on his accoustic, I'm ok with that ... but all of a sudden ... you MEET the artist ... and I find this a lot better than the image that rock music gives us, which is something I am not interested in. The worship and the whatever and the star and ... I love the work ... not the star! I love the music ... not the fame! They might be related ... but what is behind that creates it, is wayyyyy better ... than anything else they can play on stage!
Festivals, for me, is about having fun and learning new things and new music, and what not ... but having a festival to simply go hear the same thing (like the Portland Jazz Festival every year here! -- finally brought an ECM artist this year ... and I have been screaming for 20!) ... really hurts ... and when we talk about the music here ... sometimes in condescending terms - I hope that I don't come off that way, because that is not me, and I can appreciate all styles and go out of the way to never separate MUSIC by styles so I don't fall into that trap --
I've been to a few ... but in general, I prefer the cozy atmosphere for most music, when the artist can get free and loose, and it is the reason why I suggested a Bernard Pivot type of Q and A and a free for all, so the artist can be himself/herself and not have to play "the star" ... and if you ever see those things on the "Actor's Studio" thing, you will find how valuable and neat these are ... and even MTV and VH1 are not good enough to consider doing something like this.
Edited by moshkito - March 30 2011 at 16:28
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Tony R
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Joined: July 16 2004
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 17:14 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
So you can't offer a valid opinion on organizing prog festivals unless you've organized prog festivals? In that case everyone here is talking out of their range of knowledge.
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No, you were claiming a "knowing" opinion then an "expert" opinion.
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Tony R
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Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 17:17 |
micky wrote:
Garion81 wrote:
The prog label is thing that needs to die a quick death so the music can survive. Back in the 70's it was all still Rock music but certain bands seemed linked to one another but the wholesale lumping didn't happen until later in the decade. We need music to get back to that kind of diversity. |
I think it already is fwiw and lot of that has to do with the digital age, and the 'at a click' nature of getting music. If one is not exactly constrained by cost to check music out people can and I suspect are more free to explore not to mention the internet making word of mouth much easier these days. That lumping obviously still exists at some level, very much where the record industry has still considerable sway. However since the recording industry obviously has like zippo interest in trying to market (ie.. lump together) many of today's progressive group they are more free. .and do .. reach a wider audience. Music to them these days, is probably just as it was to you back in the day, Good music is... good music. Unfortunately I think prog fans are sort of stuck in the old way of thinking. That old irony again. It's like I mentioned earlier.. did any of those kids I saw at the Decemberists show really care one iota if they were digging a fantastic prog concert. I doubt that, and probably would have looked you as if you had two heads if you had mentioned it. It was great music that happened to be prog... that is where prog will survive. With or without festivals. Will festivals get with the times.. and stop being the prog world equilvalent of the record industry....we'll see. |
You can't tell people what to like. The trick is to gather some bands that most people will want to see and pay for the pleasure then mix in some bands that are up-and-coming and/or promising. Add a few off-the-wall bands for flavour and Prog's your uncle. This is not rocket science.
Edited by Tony R - March 30 2011 at 17:19
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Nearfest cancelled
