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rushfan4 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66264
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 Posted: February 28 2011 at 13:35 |
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Sounds like an extreme metal band.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 13:37 |
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It actually should sound more like post-rock...
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 13:48 |
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When I know for sure that it is for alcohol or drugs I give generously. I like honesty. One guy I give 5 bucks to every now and then stands on the corner with a half full bottle shouting out " It's not for food! It's for alcohol ! !
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 14:04 |
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A person's past is irrelevant. Part of the problem with the human race is people saying, like rushfan above, "well if everyone else doesn't do it, then why should I?". It's the reason hardly anyone stands up for anything anymore. Let me tell a little scenario:
Every time i get a student cheeseburger from MacDonalds in Stratford upon Avon in England, I give it to the homeless guy that hangs around on the way back to college. All my friends look at me like I'm from another planet or something. I ask "what's so weird about that?" and you know what? They all struggle to find an answer. Why? Because they are afraid to go against the grain, and criticise anyone who does.
I give to the homeless not because I'm trying to be weird. Not because I feel it gives me character. I do it because I am human, and I have a lot of heart for people less fortunate than me, and if I can make even one guy's day better for him, then I'll be happy. I couldn't give a toss how much meth or herion he takes, he's still human.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 14:18 |
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I don't encounter any homeless people in my daily life, but I give often to a local food bank that distributes food to those in need.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 15:34 |
 The Pessimist wrote:
A person's past is irrelevant. Part of the problem with the human race is people saying, like rushfan above, "well if everyone else doesn't do it, then why should I?". It's the reason hardly anyone stands up for anything anymore. Let me tell a little scenario:
Every time i get a student cheeseburger from MacDonalds in Stratford upon Avon in England, I give it to the homeless guy that hangs around on the way back to college. All my friends look at me like I'm from another planet or something. I ask "what's so weird about that?" and you know what? They all struggle to find an answer. Why? Because they are afraid to go against the grain, and criticise anyone who does.
I give to the homeless not because I'm trying to be weird. Not because I feel it gives me character. I do it because I am human, and I have a lot of heart for people less fortunate than me, and if I can make even one guy's day better for him, then I'll be happy. I couldn't give a toss how much meth or herion he takes, he's still human.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 16:02 |
I should probably give more than I do, but I'm in the camp of giving to food pantries, shelter, etc rather than money directly to someone who begs. Choosing to panhandle is not an accurate measure of the degree of need, and giving out spare change may not be the most effective way to help. Frankly, it's an (empathetic and caring) emotional reaction to a very narrow moment in time and having to look directly at another person. There's nothing wrong with it, but if you're serious about the matter, think about going beyond spare change.
Or at least that's the excuse I tell myself.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 16:06 |
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I'd say that is somewhat reasonable but in the end like ThePessimist said: even if that single action which will not change, as you say, anything, at least improves the other person's day, you're doing a good rather than a bad to someone.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 16:16 |
Negoba wrote:
I should probably give more than I do, but I'm in the camp of giving to food pantries, shelter, etc rather than money directly to someone who begs. Choosing to panhandle is not an accurate measure of the degree of need, and giving out spare change may not be the most effective way to help. Frankly, it's an (empathetic and caring) emotional reaction to a very narrow moment in time and having to look directly at another person. There's nothing wrong with it, but if you're serious about the matter, think about going beyond spare change.
Or at least that's the excuse I tell myself. |
Why not do both? That's the path I choose and recommend.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 16:23 |
It would actually be quite dangerous to get money out at all outside my place of work, where I'm asked most often. Most of those asking I doubt are homeless. The oly place I commonly see the truly homeless and poor folks are standing at stoplights during rush hour. This is extremely dangerous and I'm not going to encourage that either. St. Louis is a very different place than the college town where I first encountered this, and back then I gave more even though I made substantially less. (I didn't give time or money to charity much then though). It might be different downtown where you could remain anonymous and have enough others around you to remain safe.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 16:29 |
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Safe from what? I'm confused.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 16:36 |
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I assume safe from potentially dangerous people who might be trying to pass as homeless or for potentially dangerous homeless
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66264
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 16:40 |
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St. Louis and Detroit have the top two murder rates in the country, so yes, it is a bit dangerous to deal with people who are wandering the streets in these cities. Desperation breeds danger.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 16:49 |
Safe from getting mugged. Assuming you have more money and taking it. Stabbed, shot, beaten, etc. usually goes with it.
I work in a very inner city clinic (East Saint Louis) right next to a grocery / convenience store with alot of foot traffic. Most of the people that ask me for money look like every other person walking in and out of the store. Most are either teenagers or young adults. The exact same demographic are a large proportion of my patients at that site.
Obviously, I've chosen to make my profession giving health care in that area. But you have to have some safety awareness.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 16:51 |
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Taking money out to hand to someone is hardly going to attract muggers unless you're carrying large sums of money. I grew up in the inner city, so maybe it doesn't bother me as much? I don't know.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 16:54 |
Maybe your inner city is different than mine, and maybe you were lucky.
Folks don't know how much you are or aren't carrying until they roll you. How much you're carrying has nothing to do with it.
There are many many different reasons for being homeless. But the typical homeless person that beg in a busy downtown is extremely different from the people walking around where I work.
Edited by Negoba - February 28 2011 at 16:56
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 18:12 |
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You have a valid point Jay... obviously it depends on where you live, the risk of giving. I mean I don't know what you guys know of England, but Birmingham (where I live) isn't exactly the mushroom kingdom. Even so though, I give money when I feel it's safe. Once you know the area better, you soon learn which places you are most likely to get mugged and the places where you're not very likely to get mugged.
The point I'm making though is I imagine no-one walks around on their guard constantly surely? From my experiences there are safe and dangerous parts of every town or city.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 20:29 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Nope, panhandling is illegal, and giving money to panhandlers only encourages more panhandling.
People make choices throughout their lives, and if those choices made them homeless and living on the streets, then that is their problem. They could have stayed in school, paid more attention in class, not chosen to start drinking, smoking, drugs, got a real job instead of become a musician, etc......... |
Not to paraphrase but you're more or less taking the "poor people are poor because they choose to be" route? Although worded not quite that harshly. ....I was hoping that mindset died with the 19th century 
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 20:41 |
JJLehto wrote:
rushfan4 wrote:
Nope, panhandling is illegal, and giving money to panhandlers only encourages more panhandling.
People make choices throughout their lives, and if those choices made them homeless and living on the streets, then that is their problem. They could have stayed in school, paid more attention in class, not chosen to start drinking, smoking, drugs, got a real job instead of become a musician, etc......... |
Not to paraphrase but you're more or less taking the "poor people are poor because they choose to be" route?
Although worded not quite that harshly.
....I was hoping that mindset died with the 19th century
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OK I can agree with the first part that giving panhandlers money may encourage them. If you assume every person begging for money is doing it because of bad choices, like say getting laid off when their jobs are shipped to a low wage country, not being born into a wealthy family, having mental health issues but no insurance to get treatment, etc., well unless you were just trying to be funny there's really nothing to say.
Edited by Slartibartfast - February 28 2011 at 20:42
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: February 28 2011 at 21:03 |
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Yeah, I could see that as well.
And I never cared about giving money, figured why the hell not? If they spend it on booze then whatever, but I like some of what I heard in here...giving actual food, or something, instead.
And the whole poor people are so because they chose it, well I'm not addressing that even....
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