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The Truth
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 19 2009
Location: Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 21795
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Posted: February 13 2011 at 12:16 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The Truth wrote:
John Lennon? Wasn't he influenced by Bob Dylan? |
And Bach. |
I wasn't even going to post in this thread because I thought it sounded silly until I saw the person suggested in the OP.
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 16952
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Posted: February 13 2011 at 12:26 |
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Rock: Elvis |
Chuck Berry?
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8650
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Posted: February 13 2011 at 13:21 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
presdoug wrote:
20th Century- Herbert von Karajan
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I doubt it. |
It is impossible to downplay,or ignore, Karajan's astounding credentials Even after 20 years since his death, he is still enormously important. For a very long time-years, even decades, about one of every four classical records bought was a Karajan recording The important positions in the music world and awards he recieved are too numerous even to mention. HVK was a forward looking visionary, and very interested in technology as applied to music, being the first in areas of technology connected with music. There are a whole plethora of music "firsts" connected with Karajan. Not even the Beatles themselves could rival all of this.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: February 13 2011 at 13:39 |
Monteverdi, you northern scum.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: February 13 2011 at 14:32 |
presdoug wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
presdoug wrote:
20th Century- Herbert von Karajan
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I doubt it. | It is impossible to downplay,or ignore, Karajan's astounding credentials Even after 20 years since his death, he is still enormously important. For a very long time-years, even decades, about one of every four classical records bought was a Karajan recording The important positions in the music world and awards he recieved are too numerous even to mention. HVK was a forward looking visionary, and very interested in technology as applied to music, being the first in areas of technology connected with music. There are a whole plethora of music "firsts" connected with Karajan. Not even the Beatles themselves could rival all of this.
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I would wager to say that Schoenberg was more influential from the past century. I would probably say Miles Davis or one of a few other jazz greats takes the 20th century title.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: February 13 2011 at 14:40 |
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Rock: Elvis
Country: Johnny Cash
Classical: Beethoven
Metal: Jimi Hendrix
Prog: Robert Fripp
Jazz: Miles Davis |
to be honest, had it not been for Fripp, metal music would probably not exist. And though i understand why you chose him for prog, but who influenced him? that person(s) would have to be the one(s) who influenced prog the most i think. everything else i agree with, except maybe Bach for classical (but it could go either way) Jimi influenced guitarists, not necessarily whole genres of music EDIT: wait, Elvis would be nothing had Chuck Berry not paved the way
Edited by darkshade - February 13 2011 at 14:41
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Ronnie Pilgrim
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: The South of TX
Status: Offline
Points: 771
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Posted: February 13 2011 at 14:49 |
darkshade wrote:
to be honest, had it not been for Fripp, metal music would probably not exist. And though i understand why you chose him for prog, but who influenced him? that person(s) would have to be the one(s) who influenced prog the most i think.
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John Lennon claims, in the 1980 Playboy interview, that "Ticket to Ride" was the first heavy metal song. So now we're full circle.
Edited by Ronnie Pilgrim - February 13 2011 at 14:51
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: February 13 2011 at 15:17 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Of all time? Lennon is barely cold in historical terms, that's absurd! You'd have to go at least as far back as Beethoven to get serious, although we probably owe a greater debt to Bach. Or whoever wrote all that Gregorian chant.
Of course, this is only considering Western music, as Eastern music has a much longer tradition that I know little about.
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This man has nailed it. It is a matter of opinion. I mean, there are plenty of musical professors out there that would argue Mozart a greater influence than Bach. Same for Beethoven, Haydn, Purcell... For me though, it would be between: J. P. Rameau - he established that inversions are still essentially the same chord, however inverting it gives it different harmonic properties. Beethoven - Simply because he revolutionised the piano, the symphony, the orchestra and the Classical period in music. Gustav Mahler - Completely twisted romanticism into modernism almost, by bringing in elements of world / folk music into his symphonies. In other words, he practically created classical "fusion". Schoenberg - The father of atonalism, developed a completely new and systematic way of making music, which in a way is on a completely different emotional plain to tonal music. Duke Ellington - Over 1000 jazz compositions, most of them jazz standards that are still very much alive and being played today, as well as jazz symphonies. Had a massive hand in the development of jazz improvisation and piano voicing. Some of the most famous tunes known universally were written by this man, probably the most important figure in jazz.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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irrelevant
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 07 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 13382
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 01:39 |
darkshade wrote:
to be honest, had it not been for Fripp, metal music would probably not exist.
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As cool as this sounds, it's not true.
darkshade wrote:
EDIT: wait, Elvis would be nothing had Chuck Berry not paved the way
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Although quite true, I think we need to remember the seemingly logical progression of music throughout history, and that if Chuck Berry hadn't of created rock n' roll, somebody else would have anyway and around the same time.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65289
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 01:53 |
irrelevant wrote:
darkshade wrote:
to be honest, had it not been for Fripp, metal music would probably not exist.
| As cool as this sounds, it's not true.
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agreed,
especially since Fripp was still making hippie love songs when the
Yardbirds, Blue Cheer and Kinks were blowing the roof off clubs
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PlumAplomb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 03 2011
Location: pa
Status: Offline
Points: 172
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 09:50 |
presdoug wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
presdoug wrote:
20th Century- Herbert von Karajan
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I doubt it. | It is impossible to downplay,or ignore, Karajan's astounding credentials Even after 20 years since his death, he is still enormously important. For a very long time-years, even decades, about one of every four classical records bought was a Karajan recording The important positions in the music world and awards he recieved are too numerous even to mention. HVK was a forward looking visionary, and very interested in technology as applied to music, being the first in areas of technology connected with music. There are a whole plethora of music "firsts" connected with Karajan. Not even the Beatles themselves could rival all of this.
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carl perkins?
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la la la and a bottle of plum!
and when it lands
will my eyes
be closed or open?
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PlumAplomb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 03 2011
Location: pa
Status: Offline
Points: 172
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 09:53 |
darkshade wrote:
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Rock: Elvis
Country: Johnny Cash
Classical: Beethoven
Metal: Jimi Hendrix
Prog: Robert Fripp
Jazz: Miles Davis |
to be honest, had it not been for Fripp, metal music would probably not exist. And though i understand why you chose him for prog, but who influenced him? that person(s) would have to be the one(s) who influenced prog the most i think.
everything else i agree with, except maybe Bach for classical (but it could go either way)
Jimi influenced guitarists, not necessarily whole genres of music
EDIT: wait, Elvis would be nothing had Chuck Berry not paved the way
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i think there wouldn't be metal music without beethoven imo, even megadeath were classically trained julliard musicians. or wagner or mussorsky? or more simply put, there wouldn't be metal without classical. i grew up with classical so i accredit that mostly to most influential. tchaikovsky is my favorite though, you can accredit him to symphonic prog maybe? or grieg? i also like to think of that question on a smaller scale as well, i like to think that without gloria gaynors i will survive, i might not have riot grrl music for instance. without tony wilson i wouldn't have madchester. everyone paves some way
Edited by PlumAplomb - February 14 2011 at 09:59
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la la la and a bottle of plum!
and when it lands
will my eyes
be closed or open?
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 09:59 |
Pythagoras.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 10:12 |
Here's a few ideas:
The inventor of the pianoforte.
The inventor of the electric guitar.
These two instruments have dominated Western music in their own eras. Obviously their precursors were also very important but each had some specific qualities that allowed entire new sounds to evolve.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32530
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 10:19 |
Simon Railton
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13701
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 10:27 |
Epignosis wrote:
Simon Railton
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Judging by the review, isn't he the caveman who shouted og and hit something with a piece of wood?
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32530
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 10:28 |
lazland wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Simon Railton
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Judging by the review, isn't he the caveman who shouted og and hit something with a piece of wood?
| The reality is unfortunately more frightening than this.
The influence here is in showing what not to do.
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hobocamp
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2010
Location: Fine Furniture
Status: Offline
Points: 525
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 12:21 |
The Pessimist wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
Of all time? Lennon is barely cold in historical terms, that's absurd! You'd have to go at least as far back as Beethoven to get serious, although we probably owe a greater debt to Bach. Or whoever wrote all that Gregorian chant.
Of course, this is only considering Western music, as Eastern music has a much longer tradition that I know little about.
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This man has nailed it.
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Nailed what? The last in the coffin of Lennon as a credible contender? By his logic, if the same question were posed in 1857, Beethoven's, not to mention Bach's, consideration would be "absurd" due to "historical terms." I'm not supporting Lennon as the most influential, but I don't see the relevance of this type of position.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28300
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 14:46 |
Fripp was heavily influenced by the Beatles as were most prog musicians of that era but this was a whole band lead by a very clever producer.Not just one individual.
Jon Lord and Keith Emerson were heavily influenced by Bach who also influenced many classical composers so Bach has much greater credentials I would have thought. His influence transcends musical styles/cultures.
btw the first heavy metal song was The Kinks 'You really got me'.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 18:18 |
stonebeard wrote:
Pythagoras.
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You'd probably be right actually... the harmonic series is probably the most important thing in harmony!
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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