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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:24
And by the way since when did ALICE COOPER become the standard-bearer for quality music? Last time I heard his songs are rather simple rock songs, no more complex in harmony or structure than Lady Gaga's song, but with much, much poorer melody.
You know how many atrocious performers have tried to gain the spotlight with their strange antics? Many. How many succeed? Only a few. Usually, their music, simple and pop as it might be, catches the ear of quite a lot of people.
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34055
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:33
The T wrote:
And by the way since when did ALICE COOPER become the standard-bearer for quality music? Last time I heard his songs are rather simple rock songs, no more complex in harmony or structure than Lady Gaga's song, but with much, much poorer melody.
just wondering (no harm intended ) or fanboyisme from my part
but have you ever heard this two songs
if this is not quality music well then I am a Hobbit livving in the shire and eat carrotcakes for dinner
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:34
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34055
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:40
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
the song i have presented to you are PURE progressive rock
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34055
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:43
the T I only want you to take one listen to Halo of Flies (if you got the time ), and just get one impression of what the band Alice Cooper was all about, Alice Cooper was from 68 to 74 a banc and Alice Cooper was their band name, which their singer Vincent Furnier took as his own, in 75.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:43
Ok that's a little better but I still don't see nothing but a longer rock song with some decent ideas here and there and (gosh) even some melodies taken from other places.... Nothing that great, not at least in the level that would supposedly make Alice Cooper such a music god as to leave Gaga's good pop in the dust...
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:47
aginor wrote:
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
the song i have presented to you are PURE progressive rock
Ok I might agree with that but since when pure progressive rock = good music??
I'm not saying is bad, but the epitome of greatness it is not. And, specially, the epitome of non-pop it is not.
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
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Points: 34055
Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:48
it was Frank Zappa who signed Alice Cooper band and hadent Desomd Child and 80s Cooper have existed and for the band alone would actualy be a clear fitt for ether Proto-prog, Eclectic prog or prog related
Joined: March 21 2008
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 11:59
I am not proposing his inclusion ether, even Elton John could bay some good presuasive people, be fitted in here somewhere ( jammed with KC and GG, recorded an album with Roger Hodgson in 68 before he was Elton, called Argosy, use of harphischord and clavichord classical motives in the early records Mozart esque melodies, mellotrons, electric pianos, unusual chords and melodie twists, concept albums, )
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
Posted: February 02 2011 at 12:03
And I never wanted to argue about that. All I was baffled about is the fact that Overmatik uses Alice Cooper as his example of great music next to more typical mainstream music and I'm saying "hey, it's not THAT different, and whether it is superior or not, jury, as school, is still out"
Joined: July 15 2009
Location: Australia
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Points: 96
Posted: February 02 2011 at 12:07
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
All I have to say after this is that I don't have absolutely anything else to add to this discussion. Let me just get back to the 17th century where I belong...
"Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity. Calculate what we will or will not tolerate. Desperate to control all and everything. Unable to forgive your scarlet letterman."
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
Posted: February 02 2011 at 12:18
overmatik wrote:
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
All I have to say after this is that I don't have absolutely anything else to add to this discussion. Let me just get back to the 17th century where I belong...
Ok tell me why Cooper is so musically advanced, but please, in this case you have to use objective values. Talk to me about all the details: harmony, structure, melody invention, instrumentation, please, un-dumb me.
And btw, if you go back to the 17th century you'll find yourself surrounded by music at the start of the glory of poliphony and counterpoint. Say hello to the italians for me! But simple rock n' roll you won't find good friend....
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
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Points: 15784
Posted: February 02 2011 at 14:01
overmatik wrote:
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
All I have to say after this is that I don't have absolutely anything else to add to this discussion. Let me just get back to the 17th century where I belong...
According to your RYM, you would be missing most of your favorite bands in the 17th century.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Posted: February 02 2011 at 14:07
overmatik wrote:
The T wrote:
^All I've ever heard from Cooper, from his old classics like school's out to newer like poison, is rather mundane rock, simple, ultra-simple actually, with little ornamentation, little in the way of arrangements. I really, seriously, honestly think Gaga's pop music is much better in its style than Cooper's rock is.
All I have to say after this is that I don't have absolutely anything else to add to this discussion. Let me just get back to the 17th century where I belong...
I knew Alice Cooper was old, but I wasn't aware he was active in the 17th century...
It seems some stuff used to get commercial success because the music was genuinely good.
I disagree with this statement.
Big surprise there.
Anyhow, a couple of years back when Coldplay hit their pop heights the mainstream media continually describe them as innovative. Lady GaGa is almost always described as innovative, as is Kanye West. I suppose that whether any of these artists is good is a matter of personal taste, and whether they trully are innovative, or if they're just "different than the usual" I couldn't really say. Fringe popular bands like Muse and Radiohead might fit the bill, but again, level of innovation and quality of goodness are up for debate.
I dont even consider anything related to Lady Gaga(and other pop stars) as music. The only connection between today pop-'music' and true music is that they are both sound.
There are plenty of great pop songs now. "Crazy" by Gnarls Barkley is one that I actually play live.
Pop is about fun, energy, entertainment. Lady Gaga is definitely that. It's a whole package, a look, a sound, a presentation. The Beatles, Madonna, Prince, Backstreet Boys, Evanescence, it's all part of a package. Music is only a piece of it. The audience is not folks like us who have listened to tens of thousands of hours of music already and need something a bit off the beaten path to still feed us.
"Truly Innovative" is a tough one. Most of the artists even on PA aren't "truly innovative."
Pop music is about fun while True music is about art.
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Is Pop Music Innovative Or Good Anymore?
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The T wrote:
) or fanboyisme from my part
)
