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Topic ClosedThe Voice Of Gabriel or Collins in Genesis Songs
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Chris S View Drop Down
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2010 at 18:08
Collins by a mile, notwithsatnding as Ivan says PG's pure menace and passion for voice. PG left 7 years after Genesis began, PC remained for almost 25 years, speaks volumes really if you are a true Genesis fan across timelines....
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2010 at 19:05
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Collins by a mile, notwithsatnding as Ivan says PG's pure menace and passion for voice. PG left 7 years after Genesis began, PC remained for almost 25 years, speaks volumes really if you are a true Genesis fan across timelines....

I consider myself a true Genesis fan, and the reason why I lft the Genesis forum is because some people believe that fans have to love everything a band did, that's not my case, I consider ATOTT and W&W echoes of the first years and nothing after Hackett left real Genesis music, I just wish they would had changed the name of the band after Wind & Wuthering.

Gabriel founded Genesis, without him, the masterpieces would had never existed, Collins had an important role, but not as transcendental.

BTW: In all his years as vocalist, Collins made only  2 more albums than Gabriel, but none  remotely transcendental as Foxtrot, SEBTP or The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 22 2010 at 19:06
            
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Points: 3577 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2010 at 22:00
I prefer both when they sings his own album material, it means Gabriel with his Genesis period and collins with his period.

Collins done a great work in Seconds Out, but in the Gabriel vocals songs, it's a poor man's Gabriel.




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Points: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2010 at 12:35
I like them both. I even like the later 80's pop songs like "No Reply" and "Jesus He Knows Me". Phil Collins is personally my favorite vocalist of all time, but I really like Peter's voice too. From a solo point of view, I like Phil's solo material much better than Peter's. But it's really impossible to compare. They are two completely different types of voices and styles. You can't compare Supper's Ready to Misunderstanding.
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Points: 494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 06:05
Gabriel. Always. Collins is a good drummer. 
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Points: 5 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 07:57
Great Ivan! I prefer always Peter Gabriel! for the prog Genesis era he was the best!! instead of Phil Collins was a drummer ,very very good , but only a good pop singer for the"pop" Genesis era!
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Points: 1584 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 20:51
Overall, Gabriel for sure.  Especially his theatrics, but I think his voice is much more suited for prog, not to say that Phil is bad at all.
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Points: 25 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 22:26
Gabriel for sure. For me, Genesis is no longer Genesis once Hackett left the group, they should have really changed the name (then again, who would give up the bloody name Genesis? 'I GOT IT, I AIN'T GIVIN' IT AWAY!'). Phil's way too poppy for my taste, Gabriel had the attitude and the theatrics, not to mention some pretty wild lyrics! 
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Points: 643 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2011 at 13:51
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Gabriel was vocalizing during their most progressive phase and Phil took over admirably after his departure.
Too right.
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Points: 643 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2011 at 14:06
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by esky esky wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe that the only Gabriel song that Collins sung better than Peter was I know what I Like.

The rest...Gabriel by light years.

Iván
 
I wouldn't go as far as light years for this comparison. The bravura Phil added to the In the Cage medley on Three Sides Live made Gabriel's album version seem flat. I mean it's everything you'd want Collins to be on an old Gabriel-sung song. And I'll contend till my dying day that what Collins achieved with A Trick of the Tail greatly lessened the drama of Gabriel's flight from the band.

Are you crazy?

In the Cage is one of the worst tracks by Colins

Gabriel version expresses fear, claustrophobia, and panic, his semi yodel creates a sensation of anguish and being hopelessly trapped, while Collins version is flat with no changes.

An artist must convince, and while Gabriel version creates the sensation of being trapped in a cage, Collins transmits nothing, it's well sung, but emotionless.

Now, A Trick of the Tail is no Gabriel album, but being you entered into that territory, I must say that is beautiful, but closer to the way you will narrate a fairy story to a child, compare with the brutal violence of The Knife, Musical Box or the dramatic capture of Hermafroditus body  in Fountain of Salmacis.

I insist, miles behind.

Iván

 I won't ask if you're delusional - I'll just come out and state that you are. I love Gabriel's Genesis as much as the next fan, and being so, I have to say one simply can't dismiss Collins for the hard work he and the boys just because Gabriel was no longer around to sing the standards. As for your off-handed assessments of the two-album follow-ups to Lamb, learn this now - they were amazing and showed the band was a much tighter musical unit without their former front man.
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Points: 26 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2011 at 14:10
Hi,

I have preferred Peter's voice since the beginning of my frienship with Genesis.

Still, Phil's voice is ok and I enjoy it.

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Points: 2585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2011 at 17:39
nevermind collins or gabriel the question is  is the music good or bad ,ijust love the gabriel era but ther's so much good stuff in the collins era!!!so have nice time with the thing you love ( music ) f**k the restWink
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Points: 561 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2011 at 07:46
Gabriel
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Points: 124 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2011 at 13:00
Great idea for a post.  I feel sorry for Phil over the years getting compared less favorably in the press to Peter (not just in vocals but in everything).    And certainly Phil's pop/pap in the 80s both solo and with the band didn't do anything to help that.  Just yesterday in the grocery store they were playing that pop dittie "I Can't Dance".   I actually felt a flash of anger.  Here was the band that did Selling England By the Pound now doing pretty much the same type of song that Madonna does. 
 
Still, I think the timbre of Phil's voice is actually more pleasant than Peter's.  However, Peter has more command and power in his voice.   At the end of the day, I call it a tie.   Dead
 
Of course Peter sang on more great songs.  ( I actually do really like most of the Genesis albums up and through Duke.  And I can even stand several of the 80s songs (if even they begin to all sound the same after awhile))
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Points: 3242 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2011 at 00:59
Originally posted by Eärendil Eärendil wrote:

Overall, Gabriel for sure.  Especially his theatrics, but I think his voice is much more suited for prog, not to say that Phil is bad at all.

But Gabriel's voice does get too theatrical on songs like "Battle Of Epping Forest" which spoils it a little for me. On the other hand, Gabriel is much better on "Supper's Ready" than Collins is on the "Seconds Out" album. Collins is the more musical of the two but Gabriel is more expressive. That makes it a tie for me!
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Points: 2 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2011 at 02:28
I'm sure I will get and endless mountain of sh*t from this forum for saying this, but I honestly fail to see why prog fans are so obsessed with Peter Gabriel.  For one, he's really not a very good singer.  His voice kind of lacks depth, and gets really thin and weak at the top of his range.

I know that era was pretty collaborative and admittedly, I'm not sure what role Gabriel played in writing, so I could be completely wrong about this, but the impression I've gotten is that Hackett, Banks, Collins and Rutherford handled more of the musical aspect (which is what made Genesis good to begin with) and Gabriel just did lyrics/melodies and all the theatrical bullsh*t.

And I'm sure people are also going to cite the theatrics as a reason why Gabriel was so great.  But for me it's actually a major turn-off.  To me, it just seems like a gimmick.  And I think it just confirms the stereotypes of prog being this artsy-fartsy, pretentious, superficial, over-theatrical genre.  And I think that definitely could alienate some people that might like Genesis for the *good* elements of their music.  I know at least for me, watching Gabriel trot around stage in that f**king flower costume almost kills it for me, and whenever I listen to them I have put in extra effort to try to look past the cheesiness to appreciate the amazing musicality behind Gabriel.  Same with the weird "quirky" and "weird" kind of things he does with the vocal delivery (eg, "a pin-up guru every week!" in TBOEF).  I honestly think I would like Genesis a lot better if it weren't for Gabriel's weird bullsh*t.  It just makes the whole thing seem like a charade;  it lacks a certain honesty and earnestness that I think is important in music, and it makes it that much harder for me to take seriously.


Edited by FullMoonRising - January 28 2011 at 02:29
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Points: 3242 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2011 at 07:32
Originally posted by FullMoonRising FullMoonRising wrote:

I'm sure I will get and endless mountain of sh*t from this forum for saying this, but I honestly fail to see why prog fans are so obsessed with Peter Gabriel.  For one, he's really not a very good singer.  His voice kind of lacks depth, and gets really thin and weak at the top of his range.

I know that era was pretty collaborative and admittedly, I'm not sure what role Gabriel played in writing, so I could be completely wrong about this, but the impression I've gotten is that Hackett, Banks, Collins and Rutherford handled more of the musical aspect (which is what made Genesis good to begin with) and Gabriel just did lyrics/melodies and all the theatrical bullsh*t.

And I'm sure people are also going to cite the theatrics as a reason why Gabriel was so great.  But for me it's actually a major turn-off.  To me, it just seems like a gimmick.  And I think it just confirms the stereotypes of prog being this artsy-fartsy, pretentious, superficial, over-theatrical genre.  And I think that definitely could alienate some people that might like Genesis for the *good* elements of their music.  I know at least for me, watching Gabriel trot around stage in that f**king flower costume almost kills it for me, and whenever I listen to them I have put in extra effort to try to look past the cheesiness to appreciate the amazing musicality behind Gabriel.  Same with the weird "quirky" and "weird" kind of things he does with the vocal delivery (eg, "a pin-up guru every week!" in TBOEF).  I honestly think I would like Genesis a lot better if it weren't for Gabriel's weird bullsh*t.  It just makes the whole thing seem like a charade;  it lacks a certain honesty and earnestness that I think is important in music, and it makes it that much harder for me to take seriously.

I'm not Gabriel's greatest fan but your point about the writing is not correct. From their Charterhouse days, Gabriel formed a writing team with Banks, while Rutherford formed a writing team with Anthony Phillips. On the early Genesis albums Gabriel plays flute and percussion, so he's certainly capable of writing music (as we see later with his solo albums). Also, I don't think Gabriel's voice is thin in the top of the range - I just think Gabriel is a very expressive singer who at times does get a bit too theatrical. But this needs to be taken in context of the times when Genesis was struggling for an audience and Gabriel was the front man in a band where most of the other members of the band just sat quietly in the corner of the stage playing their instruments and thus Gabriel was the one expected to grab the audience (this is before Collins joined the band). Even if you don't like Gabriel's voice he has a distinct style of singing so you know that its Gabriel's voice as soon as you hear him (same as for Collins).
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Points: 525 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2011 at 08:36
I like them both. I even love Abacab. That's right. Love, not like. Times changed. So did music. The Lamb will always be my fav, though. Gabriel sounds weaker on the higher register notes but displays shredding prowess in the same song. Back in NYC has some great vocal melodies but the part that goes No time for romantic escape....is so weak the instruments drown him out. But I do like Petes solo stuff more than Phils for style, not vocals.
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Points: 4574 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2011 at 15:47
Thank You FullMoonRising!!! I just got the 1970-1975 boxset and the DVD footage is hard to watch!! Peter Gabriel's live singing and theatricality is awful and just looks foolish now. Even then you could hear how much better Phil Collin's voice is!!! Ditto for Fish and Hogarth in Marillion. Hogarth is a much better singer also!!
A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Points: 785 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2011 at 17:50
If only Tony and Mike would reunite with Peter for one more Genesis tour...

so we could hear Peter sing Collins-era songs like "Mama", "In Too Deep", and "I Can't Dance" and see if he fares better than Phil.LOL
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