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Topic ClosedDo you hate certain prog because of popularity?

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Prog Geo View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 09:22
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Prog Geo Prog Geo wrote:

Generally popularity bothers me!(especially in music)So,the answer is yes.But I don't hate certain prog.I usually don't choose to hear it.


I'm guessing you at least give it a chance before deciding not to hear it again?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 09:50
Maybe some people just don't like popular bands because they don't like them? You can't just assume that it's because they're popular. 


"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 10:16
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

The more popular prog, at least the classics, owed more to distribution than quality. The most popular bands (Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis, ELP, Jethro Tull) all had major record label contracts. Before the internet, you pretty much got what the local record store had or maybe mail order something you were lucky enough to know about. With what I have discovered of the classic era due to the internet, many of those popular bands would not have made it to my collection.

Worth ridiculing someone over? Of course not. But I likewise will not listen to any assertion that popularity has any basis on quality.

I agree 100%.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 10:26
You can't just use the word "popularity" , you must distinguish between classics and music of current popularity. If I read a book by Shakespeare, am I mislead by "popularity"? Or Bach - is he overrated? Classics of all sort usually have a guaraneed quality in it, usually it is something that's made an impact on followers that came later. You can listen to an obscure band that is highly influenced by one classic, well known band - but why ignore a highly influential band that inspired a great number of later bands?
 
Recent popularity regarding modern, current things , is another thing. Of course, if one hates a band, it's because of it's popularity. If it was totally unknown - and bad - why would you bother wasting energy on it?
 
You can direct your anger either towards an artist, or the listeners and fans of the artist. Without listeners the artist wouldn't be popular.
 
I don't hate any artist. I was extremely frustrated in the nineties with commercial radio stations and people's music habits. The commercial stations started in sweden in -95. I hated it, not just because of the music, but because of the few amount of songs in rotation which caused a crazy repetition. And of course, commercials and insane jingles on top of that.
 
Today it's different, radio isn't as popular. It has to do with the fact that now people can listen to all kinds of stuff without having to pay for it, everyone has mp3 players and mobile phones which enables you to listen to anything anytime. The positive thing is that people can try different things and explore music in a way that was impossible 10-15 years ago. I have heard of commercial radio stations that have had to shut down because lack of listeners, which is great. That's the only thing I have wholeheartedly hated, the radio stations, and one of my big frustrations I have with people is the acceptance of the insane repetition of commercials and individual songs. I rarely listen to a song more than once a day - maybe twice in rare occasions. It's the whole phenomenon of people surrendering to collectively accepted habits without thinking for themselves that I have a problem with, but that's mostly a thing of society, not a thing specificaly related to music.


Edited by wilmon91 - January 27 2011 at 10:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 11:08

Some people here are relatively new to prog and need to found out and talk about these popular bands. Cool.

Other people are here to discover and marvel about all those fantastic obscurities. Cool too.

So depending on the situation, some people have a need for those endless polls and discussions about the popular bands.
Others are tired to death with them (tired of those polls I mean, not the bands Big smile)





Edited by Bonnek - January 27 2011 at 11:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 11:30

Well done for noticing OP.

It does happen here whether people deny it or not.

It's their way of basically saying "look at me, I am going against the norm, I am superior to you because I prefer Ummagumma to Wish You Were Here, for example"

Also, certain members are keen on making irrelevant posts: such as, in a poll between song A and song B, they might mention how their favourite is song C, by a band only they and other superior people have heard of........



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 11:47
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

It's their way of basically saying "look at me, I am going against the norm, I am superior to you because I prefer Ummagumma to Wish You Were Here, for example"





  But i doI prefer  Ummagumma to Wish you were here  ,Wink


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 12:19
I don’t like King Crimson and I don’t like Porcupine Tree!
 I just don’t like them! Find their music unappealing, often irritating, sometimes plain boring, it has a vibe which I don't like .... That are my reasons. Not their popularity. If my dislike would be  for the sake of popularity I would not like Genesis, Yes, Van der Graaf Generator, all bands which I love!
Just not liking something because it is popular is as irrational as not liking something just for the fact that it was relaesed after 1989!Wink


Edited by King Manuel - January 27 2011 at 12:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 12:23
Originally posted by King Manuel King Manuel wrote:

I don’t like King Crimson and I don’t like Porcupine Tree!
 I just don’t like them! Find their music unappealing, often irritating, sometimes plain boring, it has a vibe which I don't like .... That are my reasons. Not their popularity. If my dislike would be  for the sake of popularity I would not like Genesis, Yes, Van der Graaf Generator, all bands which I love!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 12:28
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

It's their way of basically saying "look at me, I am going against the norm, I am superior to you because I prefer Ummagumma to Wish You Were Here, for example"





  But i doI prefer  Ummagumma to Wish you were here  ,Wink


Yes but if you preferred Wish you were Here to Ummagumma, would you mention it so often?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 12:35
Obviously, if you don't like popular music, there is something seriously wrong with you and you should seek psychiatric help immediately.  Your taste in music obviously sucks, and that is an indisputable fact.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 12:36
I agree with what some have posted or at least hinted at here: "popular" can mean different things. I would make a distinction between highly rated, well know bands among most Progressive Rock listeners (generally represented by large number of ratings, esp. high ratings on this site), and progressive rock that is or has historically been played for a wider audience, particularly on the airwaves, such as classic rock stations. As for myself, I currently focus on exploring bands/albums in the former category, simply because there are thousands of bands/albums, and I want to discover why majorities of listeners have rated them highly--it is an indication of quality as much as "popularity". So far, I have not been very disappointed. And I confess, I enjoy a bit of recreational snobbery when I play some of the more obscure music in the presence of folks who don't normally listen to the stuff. I've already had several comments about me and my obsession with "weird-ass" music.

More people in the general population have heard the music the second type of "popularity", and often think of it as "pop" or "classic". I do like most of it (widely know hits from Pink Floyd, Rush, or Yes). I tend not to listen to these particular songs as much because they're a bit worn out for me, as I used to listen to a lot of classic rock stations where they were frequently played. And when I do listen to them, I typically prefer to listen to them in the context of the entire albums. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 12:37
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

It's their way of basically saying "look at me, I am going against the norm, I am superior to you because I prefer Ummagumma to Wish You Were Here, for example"





  But i doI prefer  Ummagumma to Wish you were here  ,Wink


Yes but if you preferred Wish you were Here to Ummagumma, would you mention it so often?


There's really no point in saying it. Everyone assumes that. 

Can't people just accept that people have different taste than them?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 12:54
Anyway - what are the reasons for liking (or hating) the music you like (or hate)?

There seems to be a tendency towards a subjectivist approach (I like it because I like it), but doesn't this exclude the existence of objective properties ascribable to music (e.g. 'good' and 'bad') and render whatever reason completely arbitrary? 

Others might claim that music can be said to be objectively good, that there are such things as good music and bad music - independent of what you happen to think and like. 

Personally, I think the subjectivist view excludes the possibility of actual reasons for liking (except random and personal ones) as well as discussions about what is good and bad. I believe in the subjectivist view and sometimes wonder why this place is full of reasons why some band is good as well as discussions where the participants assume that music actually has (value-laden) properties. Can you do that while maintaining that taste is completely subjective?   


Edited by Paravion - January 27 2011 at 13:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 13:12
I Only Like Music i Like  Wacko
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 13:31
People might call the popular prog "cliche" because it essentially defined most of the music on this sight. ELP's st album was spectacular, and many bands were influenced by that. People might not like it now because it seems like there isn't that much "spark," but back then it was revolutionary (or maybe not, but still)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 14:25
Originally posted by Paravion Paravion wrote:

Anyway - what are the reasons for liking (or hating) the music you like (or hate)?

There seems to be a tendency towards a subjectivist approach (I like it because I like it), but doesn't this exclude the existence of objective properties ascribable to music (e.g. 'good' and 'bad') and render whatever reason completely arbitrary? 

Others might claim that music can be said to be objectively good, that there are such things as good music and bad music - independent of what you happen to think and like. 

Personally, I think the subjectivist view excludes the possibility of actual reasons for liking (except random and personal ones) as well as discussions about what is good and bad. I believe in the subjectivist view and sometimes wonder why this place is full of reasons why some band is good as well as discussions where the participants assume that music actually has (value-laden) properties. Can you do that while maintaining that taste is completely subjective?   

Of course. Taste in food is completely subjective. I like pizza because I like sauce and cheese. I dislike salad because I don't like lettuce, tomatoes, or onions. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 14:30
If you use a value to determine whether something is good or bad, then it can be done. Or at least it acquires some objectivity. If we measure music by thematic and structural complexity, pop is low, prog-rock is medium-low to medium, classical music is high at the top. If we measure music by other means (which still lack a proper standard scale anyway, as the previous example I just mentioned,  but at least the answer is easier to see) then the results might be different. For example, popularity would come up with pop on top. 

But just saying "X is better than Y" without any framework is impossible to consider objectively and falls in the realm of pure subjectivity. And people can be purely subjective. And they have all the right to be. 


Edited by The T - January 27 2011 at 14:34
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 14:38
I dislike "certain" Prog, because it doesn't appeal to me. If it's avant-garde strictly to be avant-garde, I can't get into it. Sorry. That's why I'll never understand Jazz.

Basically, I'll do the reverse and check something out if it seems to be popular by a trusted source. I just downloaded maudlin of the Well's Part the Second because I see it all over the place and I love it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 14:49
I don't like prog (or music) in general if its overtly/overly poppy. Most of the "popular" prog bands tend to be more pleasing to the ears...but thats just how it goes.  At the end of the day its the music that matters.
 
In regards to the giants of the past, those albums are classics for a reason, which are much more likely to be known by large groups of people than a random band who released one album of experimental sounds in the mid 70s in only 350 copies.  
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