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Topic ClosedWhy isn't prog popular?

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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 21:03
You can't convert people to prog.  You can only expose them to it and hope they might appreciate it.  If someone doesn't, don't waste your time.  Trying to force someone to like something is pointless.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 20:41
I find the main difference is that most people don't really "listen" to music, but follow the beat and dance to it instead. Prog, and progressive music in general, is intended to be listened to. The vast majority of people just like a catchy tune and a good dance beat, which is OK by me, but in the case of prog, the intent is to write music you will enjoy by carefully listening to it, analyzing the melodies, progressions, dynamics, etc. Once people understand this, is easier to explain what progressive music is all about, to people who are not into it or don't understand what it is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 10:16
Originally posted by The_Jester The_Jester wrote:

I think converting people to prog is not a matter of wanting to spread prog among the world, it's more of wanting to make people like music in wich real musicians plays original compositions rather than pop sh*t. Don't you aggree. And we also need to respect other styles that has the same criterias.


First of all, real musicians also play original compositions that get called pop, like Stevie Wonder or Tori Amos, er...Tongue  Also, why is it that people who like jazz don't necessarily like prog?  So it's not so simple as that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 09:44
I think converting people to prog is not a matter of wanting to spread prog among the world, it's more of wanting to make people like music in wich real musicians plays original compositions rather than pop sh*t. Don't you aggree. And we also need to respect other styles that has the same criterias.
La victoire est éphémère mais la gloire est éternelle!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 08:46
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

The Self Flagellation of the Minority Interest Enthusiast:

If Prog were popular mainstream music a significant number of you wouldn't listen to it any longer. The smart money would be on you defecting to the outer reaches of the avant garde (or whatever other genre you deem esoteric enough)


Although I'm sure we don't want to admit it, that's definitely true, some of the pull of listening to non-mainstream music, although I enjoy it immensely, is that i feel like a member of an 'elitist group', (totally unfounded and pretentious I know, but I'm being honest)



I admire your candour, it's very refreshing Clap

and I think we would all admit to a weakness for the rarefied heights of the mountain top from time to to time.


Reminds me of somebody telling me that KC is the best of the accessible prog bands.  I was Confused  because he did not have ITCOTCK or Discipline in mind when he said that.  I asked him how it was that he found them accessible and he said he just called the more well known bands "accessible".  Hmmm.....Confused  I personally prefer to move to some other scene or just listen to my favourites more and more to see what they reveal on more focused attention (seems to be a crime these days not to be listening to lots and lots of music!) once I have penetrated a little beyond the second tier.  Chances are I miss some good or even great bands but I would then be enjoying the work of great artists in some other genre.  Never understood from day one the obsession with obscurities. I mean, I understand why collectors would want obscurities in their treasure chest but not why obscure albums are so much better. Confused Generally, bands that few among hardcore followers of a scene (and not the public at large or press) are aware of are obscure for a reason. Of course, the power of "I know what you don't know" cannot be underestimated.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 08:37
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

I am printing out a copy of your post reply. I know I will forget these interesting points you have made due to my busy home life and I want to bring these points out to a couple of old friends. I am very impressed with your truthful statements.


Flattered! Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 06:48
Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

The Self Flagellation of the Minority Interest Enthusiast:

If Prog were popular mainstream music a significant number of you wouldn't listen to it any longer. The smart money would be on you defecting to the outer reaches of the avant garde (or whatever other genre you deem esoteric enough)


Although I'm sure we don't want to admit it, that's definitely true, some of the pull of listening to non-mainstream music, although I enjoy it immensely, is that i feel like a member of an 'elitist group', (totally unfounded and pretentious I know, but I'm being honest)



I admire your candour, it's very refreshing Clap

and I think we would all admit to a weakness for the rarefied heights of the mountain top from time to to time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 06:34
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

The Self Flagellation of the Minority Interest Enthusiast:

If Prog were popular mainstream music a significant number of you wouldn't listen to it any longer. The smart money would be on you defecting to the outer reaches of the avant garde (or whatever other genre you deem esoteric enough)


Although I'm sure we don't want to admit it, that's definitely true, some of the pull of listening to non-mainstream music, although I enjoy it immensely, is that i feel like a member of an 'elitist group', (totally unfounded and pretentious I know, but I'm being honest)



Edited by JS19 - January 22 2011 at 06:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 06:26
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I agree with TODDLER that the implications of rejecting improvisation as a valid means of musicial expression are serious.  Perhaps, critics in heartily joining the punk brigade didn't anticipate that jazz too would move off the limelight while still remaining a serious and respected musical form because of this wholly illusory projection that improvisation is pretentious.  Just because you can't improvise doesn't mean those who do are pretentious! Tongue

With regard to timburlane's point regarding a "say it brilliantly, say it in three minutes and make sure you can dance to it" approach, Gentle Giant and Jethro Tull were both capable of writing short and smart songs. Even Genesis on occasion, I mean if somebody would really rather listen to Sweet Home Alabama than I know what I like or Counting Out Time, that's more a matter of taste and not the prog musician's inability to write interesting music in a short song format.  But the media defined prog by stuff like Karn Evil 9 and TFTO and people completely bought into that.  To an extent, it is also true that a lot of prog listeners subscribe to a "longer is better" approach which I'd personally hesitate to concur with and this lends some 'credibility' to the myth.  I have always looked at prog as more an approach to writing music, which doesn't necessarily depend on a certain minimum length, and not necessarily as indiscriminate license to sprawl but the latter is what prog is often taken to be.  

As for nerdiness, again, no smoke without fire.  A lot of prog listeners do buy into the "Pink Floyd is awesome because they don't write love songs" kind of thinking. There's no reason why a love song is in itself such a bad thing.  Why should expression of one of the vital human emotions, one that arguably keeps the world going, be deemed invalid? It is just the often cliched and cheesy treatment of love in mainstream pop/rock that people react to but the reaction seems to push people to 'cold', 'intellectual' subjects (read sci fi).  I think nerdiness may be at work if a group of people honestly believe that interpretation of normal but profound human emotions is somehow inferior and commonplace and only subjects like winged elephants dancing in the air should be the subject matter of prog. LOL
I am printing out a copy of your post reply. I know I will forget these interesting points you have made due to my busy home life and I want to bring these points out to a couple of old friends. I am very impressed with your truthful statements.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 06:16
The Self Flagellation of the Minority Interest Enthusiast:

If Prog were popular mainstream music a significant number of you wouldn't listen to it any longer. The smart money would be on you defecting to the outer reaches of the avant garde (or whatever other genre you deem esoteric enough)

Just because the herd you belong to is smaller than the biggest one doesn't  make you immune to the herd instinct.

I see most of these types of thread as being either disingenuous (the lady doth protest too much) or carry transparently rhetorical questions which only serve to reveal the respondents dearth of life experience.
(e.g. people who dislike Prog are dumb, unthinking conformists, shallow, reactionary, gullible, materialistic, lack patience and sensitivity, terminally trendy and so hopelessly conditioned that they cannot form their own opinions etc)

Of those people I consider close to me, not one has the slightest affection or interest in Prog and would represent the polar opposite of the lazily depicted 'masses' quoted above.  My loved ones know full well that I would never attempt to 'convert the heathen' (As this would result in the perfectly justifiable reaction everyone should reserve for front door evangelists everywhere - CensoredWHAACCKKK Ouch).

I also love soccer even more than Prog, but don't go around thinking that baseball, basketball, tennis, ice hockey, rugby or cricket are the sport of choice for plankton with learning difficulties. Similarly, I adore the music of the Velvet Underground, Wall of Voodoo, Cure, Banshees, Magazine, Television, Patti Smith, PIL, Bob Dylan, The Smiths, Bunnymen etc but do not consider such to be at some lower rung on the evolutionary ladder than Yes, ELP, Genesis, Crimson et al.

Too many bulls-eyes being awarded for merely hitting the wall round here...





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 05:52
Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:

Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:


.
And that minority has to be further spread over the many available options: classical, jazz, blues, rock, world, indie, singer songwriters, some of the music featuring on PA and much more...



People who enjoy indie do so because they want to be different from the mainstream, but evidently don't care about the music. 

I totally disagree with that
But now my branches suffer
And my leaves don't bear the glow
They did so long ago
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 04:24
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I don't even try to convert people to my religion, why should I convert somebody to Prog? LOL

Iván


Because Prog is far more importantTongue
You must be joking.....Take a running jump......
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 04:08
Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:


.
And that minority has to be further spread over the many available options: classical, jazz, blues, rock, world, indie, singer songwriters, some of the music featuring on PA and much more...



Indie has always fascinated me. People who enjoy indie do so because they want to be different from the mainstream, but evidently don't care about the music. What confuses me, is that i've often seen some of the best new prog bands labeled as indie, which I simply do not understand.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 03:28

Most people aren't looking for music but for "entertainment", for a quick musical snack that sounds exactly as they want it.
No problem at all with that, I don't have much of a clue about painting or literature neither.

The people that are looking for music as a form of artistic expression are a minority.
And that minority has to be further spread over the many available options: classical, jazz, blues, rock, world, indie, singer songwriters, some of the music featuring on PA and much more...

So it's simple logic, low demand and many many options.
 Nothing to do with intellectual superiority, better taste or whatever.



Edited by Bonnek - January 22 2011 at 03:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2011 at 02:52
Why would record labels push music that enhances thought, is emotional, is spiritual. Music that makes you think, and music that helps you grow as a human being. Record labels want you to keep shakin that thing! They want you to keep listening to music that makes you violent, and that pushes drugs and sexism. Aka rap. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2011 at 23:04
Isn't it popular on this site, therefore it's popular?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2011 at 22:41
If they're a metalhead, Opeth is the best way to go.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2011 at 22:21
Maybe I've "sewn some seeds" as the saying goes, and the prog will do the rest Wink   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2011 at 22:19

Well, when I meet people who actually like music and start to know their tastes (which are few), I do give them recommendations, be it Prog or not, but mainly stuff he wouldn't have dreamed to listen. I'm not trying to convert anyone to anything, just want some people who enjoy art to appreciate some other kinds of art and expand their mind, just like they do with me with other stuff.

I did manage, somehow, to make a friend liste to Gates of Delirium among other Prog epics. But I "failed", fortunately though it made him see, at least, that their's much more music than he thinks there is.
There's a friend of mine who's very into acoustic stuff and I recommended him Jethro Tull, he loved them. He probably doesn't listen to them in the same I do (or "we" do), but still it's an accomplishment, he even says that Baker St. Muse is one of the greatest songs he has ever heard. Big smile


Edited by The Quiet One - January 21 2011 at 22:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2011 at 22:05
I don't even try to convert people to my religion, why should I convert somebody to Prog? LOL

Iván
            
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