Forum Home Forum Home > Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements > Report abuse here
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - List manipulation?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedList manipulation?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 89101112>
Author
Message
harmonium.ro View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2010 at 10:37
Great review BTW, Uwe.
Back to Top
Rivertree View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions

Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17628
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2010 at 10:49
muchas gracias, Alex  Hug



Back to Top
harmonium.ro View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 18:05
Inspired by Karl's find that he posted in the Review Discussions thread, I remembered that I didn't check for manipulators since quite some time. Here are some potential manipulators, that should be checked:

Camelloss
rulo76 (IP from Sweden, did I guess right?)
porkypine (Bunchakeze fan who did rate some neutral albums, besides rating down other competing 2010 albums)
maciek313 (only two ratings, but I sense potential)
Proggy style
Fabio Pfm (Angry)
Candour (Censored Censored)
Darkersound (so obvious!)
Caph (Angry)
Lima96 (this is of the smart kind)
tortoisetree
asturias (not sure exactly what is this guy up to, but he definitely "doesn't like" a lot of 2010 prog)
jtorres
iiuda (there are manipulators from the metal/heavy/experimental side of tastes, too)
daniskyfix

And I've just looked through the ratings of five albums! This whole thing makes me Cry Cry So many albums that I like are getting hammered just so these guys can pump up their favourites! My question is: how deep is the impact of these practices? Right now I feel like quitting this place, I'm not sure it's worth spending more time and effort....
Back to Top
Bonnek View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 01 2009
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 4515
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 18:21

^ Yes it's a plague, I don't think the solution should be that we Collabs try out some of these top charts albums just to moderate the exaggerated ratings.
I've had a few of those this year and I can't say I feel good about it. It feels dirty. I don't want to be around such music and force listening to be able to review it..
Back to Top
Triceratopsoil View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2010 at 02:58
in theory, all the list manipulation should cancel itself out.  
Back to Top
clarke2001 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2010 at 03:17
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:


And I've just looked through the ratings of five albums! This whole thing makes me Cry Cry So many albums that I like are getting hammered just so these guys can pump up their favourites! My question is: how deep is the impact of these practices? Right now I feel like quitting this place, I'm not sure it's worth spending more time and effort....


Oh c'mon man!


The impact is as deep as you want it to be. I find only coherent reviews worthy, and that's it...


BTW, here's another fanboy: maciek313 LOL
Back to Top
Easy Livin View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2010 at 04:01
I guess there are two separate but related issues.
 
There are the individuals who try to push their favourites a little further up the rankings by giving them 5 stars, and their nearest competitors 1 star. Such people tend to give ratings only, as they find it too difficult to write a coherent review of an album they have not heard. They are probably unaware of the minimal impact their ratings only will have, and are basically harmless. That said, a simple count of the 1 and 5 star ratings for said album is corrupted slightly too, but for an album with fewer ratings this can be more relevant. I don't think there' is too much we can do about such visitors. M@x has decided to make it easier to post ratings only, and this will be one of the effects of that decision.
 
Then we have the concerted hyping of bands and albums by the artists or well meaning friends, agents, whatever. Most of our regular visitors are able to smell a rat when they come across such attempts, and take the reviews with the large pinch of salt they warrant. Those concerned think they have beaten the system, and congratulate themselves on a job well done. Behind the scenes, the admin team use the tools at our disposal (the obvious ones and others we'll keep to ourselves) to identify such efforts, and where appropriate, we take action. We tend to do this quietly and without publicity. We appreciate the input form the site members pointing us towards potential hype attacks, but please understand that we may not comment openly on any action taken.


Edited by Easy Livin - December 24 2010 at 04:01
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2010 at 07:22
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I guess there are two separate but related issues.
 
There are the individuals who try to push their favourites a little further up the rankings by giving them 5 stars, and their nearest competitors 1 star. Such people tend to give ratings only, as they find it too difficult to write a coherent review of an album they have not heard. They are probably unaware of the minimal impact their ratings only will have, and are basically harmless. That said, a simple count of the 1 and 5 star ratings for said album is corrupted slightly too, but for an album with fewer ratings this can be more relevant. I don't think there' is too much we can do about such visitors. M@x has decided to make it easier to post ratings only, and this will be one of the effects of that decision.
 
Then we have the concerted hyping of bands and albums by the artists or well meaning friends, agents, whatever. Most of our regular visitors are able to smell a rat when they come across such attempts, and take the reviews with the large pinch of salt they warrant. Those concerned think they have beaten the system, and congratulate themselves on a job well done. Behind the scenes, the admin team use the tools at our disposal (the obvious ones and others we'll keep to ourselves) to identify such efforts, and where appropriate, we take action. We tend to do this quietly and without publicity. We appreciate the input form the site members pointing us towards potential hype attacks, but please understand that we may not comment openly on any action taken.


Well said Bob. Clap   Thanks to the admin team for their efforts in keeping this place what it is meant to be: A useful tool for prog lovers.

As I've said before, I think the problem of list manipulation will work itself out eventually almost every time with these two elements of our system: Admin monitoring (with member reporting!) and collaborator reviews.
Back to Top
AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2010 at 08:01
The only time list manipulation may become a problem for me is if it targets my fave albums and affects them negatively - As yet that hasnt happened as the ratings have minimal impact. I only focus on collabs reviews anyway only occasionally reading reviews from outsiders.
Back to Top
The Neck Romancer View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 01 2010
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 10185
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 11:08
http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=31535


Censored
Back to Top
Negoba View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 11:18

Perhaps we reviewers need to remember that our reviews for current year albums and those with few ratings are the most important. Although some of you might be dying to hear my opinion of Aqualung, it really doesn't help the site much. I have some 2010s I haven't gotten to yet...

You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Back to Top
avestin View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 18 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 12625
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 11:59
A band rating all their releases 5 stars (and rate nothing else):
Back to Top
snobb View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: August 20 2009
Location: Vilnius,LT,EU
Status: Offline
Points: 3578
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 12:26
Originally posted by avestin avestin wrote:

A band rating all their releases 5 stars (and rate nothing else):



They have American Idol on vocals, that's a reason for a successful career in prog ,I believe At least, they like their albums...
Back to Top
AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 01:00
Sounds ^^^ like a great album!
Back to Top
AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 01:10
Just for the record - I read it somehwre but can you explain the ratings system
 
 
collab rating with review percentage? - is it 20?
regular rating with review percentage? is it 3?
 
rating only collab?
rating only regular?
 
thx
Back to Top
harmonium.ro View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 02:18
@Scott:

1) 1rating = 1 rating
2) regular review = 1 rating x 5
3) collab review = 1 rating x 20

(if I'm not wrong)

Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 02:45
^ you both are wrong

- Rating only: Weight = 1
- Review by members : Weight = 10
- Review by PA Collaborators : Weight = 20

 
What?
Back to Top
harmonium.ro View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 03:03
Thanks Dean.
Back to Top
AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 04:49
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ you both are wrong

- Rating only: Weight = 1
- Review by members : Weight = 10
- Review by PA Collaborators : Weight = 20

 
Ah I thought it was 20 for collabs but not sure about the others - thanks....
Back to Top
toroddfuglesteg View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
Retired

Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 14:06
I cannot help noticing the outbreak of justice and quality on the top 2010 list. Is there a God after all ?  
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 89101112>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.