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Topic ClosedThe Voice Of Gabriel or Collins in Genesis Songs

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Formentera Lady View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2010 at 06:18
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The lower register resonance in Gabriel's voice on Carpet Crawlers is far better than Collins and carries a warmth that Collins cannot muster, however Collins's backing harmonies on the original are superb. The song was written for two voices and studio multi-tracking - it just doesn't work for me as a single voice song the way Collins sings it.
 
I really do not like the lack of timbre in Collins singing on the opening verse of the Seconds Out version of Carpet Crawlers, but will admit his higher register voice is more soothing than Gabe's and that does work slightly better. The problem for me is that he rushes the words at the end of each verse so he can transition into the chorus-voice and then does it again at the beginning of the next verse in transition out of the chorus, for example "The porcelain manikin with shattered skin fears attack" is sung by Gabriel as three distinct phrases that fit the music, but with Collins it is a crushed forced-fit on the live version with no pause between "manikin" and "with" and between "skin" and "fears". I find it "odd" that a drummer should bugger up the rhythm of the vocal so badly at that point - it really irritates me to listen to it.
 
To get a better understanding of what I mean you need to compare the Seconds Out version not with the studio version but with the Gabriel-era live version from the Archive Box Set where Collins provides the second (backing) vocals - that is the definitive live version and knocks the Collins version right out of the ball-park.
 
On Seconds Out Collins is doing a Gabriel impression, even on the Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering tracks, and doesn't use the bluesy-soul voice he would use on later albums. He is also singing in English rather than American (phrasing, pronunciation and diction) - another Gabriel trait (also shared by Kate Bush) that he later dropped.
 
In general, when Collins sings Gabriel songs that are within his vocal range he is a good singer, but he doesn't have the depth or versatility of Gabriel when he goes "into character" and lacks that [Roger] Chapmanesque bark in the back of his throat (that Hammill, and to some extent Fish and Ian Anderson, also have) - when Collins does character voices it just sounds mockney to me.

Absolutely agree. Clap
I'd like to add that Peter Gabriel sings the lines with more compassion and meaning, e.g. the line
"Through the door a harvest feast is lit by candlelight" the "through" is a half tone lower than "the door" and "lit" is the highest note in the line, which makes perfectly sense, whereas Phil Collins sings the whole song, as if it does not mean anything at all to him (and probably it does not).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2010 at 08:59
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Actually, I agree with CCVP that neither are great singers. They just do that drama-singing thing well, which is generally liked in prog circles.  But I prefer Gabriel on the Gabriel-Genesis albums because he conveyed drama better, while Collins, as Dean said, can get a bit goofy.


Wow, somebody actually agreed! That's unheard of.LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 08:31
Singing can be a million things, how well do you produce pure tones, how well do you do complex melodies, can you do a deep dragonvoice, but what matters most is how do you communicate with your audience.
 
Neither Phil Collins or Peter Gabriel can produce pure tones like Art Garfunkel. Collins is probably a little better, and from live tapes was much less likely to actually sing out of tune. But neither can do vocal acrobatics very well.
 
But Gabriel was one of the best vocalists ever in the range of dramatic expression and range of emotional communication.
 
I've been watching video of Collins doing Supper's Ready and Musical Box and Carpet Crawlers and it's just weak. There's just not enough pathos in his voice or his soul to pull that stuff off.
 
One other important point, however, is that going back and watching the Gabriel-era video, you realize how much having Collins' second voice really was an integral part of the classic sound.
 
And finally, gotta have the flute. and the makeup. and costumes.
 
Collins plays a mean trapset though. He was a beast on the skins. 
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 08:43
Gabriel has a menace in his voice that Collins cannot match. Compare and contrast the "me, I'm just a lawnmower" bit in the original and live versions. Also, Collins adds some annoying bits such as "Stickleback, back back" in Carpet Crawlers (which I recently saw a Genesis tribute band do as well). Collins is a great singer but he lacks Gabriel's character.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 09:01
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe that the only Gabriel song that Collins sung better than Peter was I know what I Like.

The rest...Gabriel by light years.


Edited by DisgruntledPorcupine - December 13 2010 at 09:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 10:34
Both are rather nasal and annoying for long periods, Gabriel less so.
 
In fact I would go as far as to say that they are my least favourite vocalists from "all the greats" in prog.....


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 10:59
well they are definitly not Freddy Mercury
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 17:40
Collins was, in the early years after he took over, a perfectly competent vocalist, especially considering what he had to follow.

But he isn't Peter Gabriel by a very long way. But few, if any people, are fit to compare with this most charismatic of all 70s vocalists..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 17:50
I think that they're both great vocalists, but for different reasons. On a technical level, PC is probably better...you hear his seemingly infinite range jump around throughout Seconds Out, really. But PG is more soulful and dramatic, and his rasps and nasal notes add to the effect that he tries to give his vocal parts (at least in the Genesis material. His 80's and 90's vocals are much more controlled and...normal. Still great! ) 

Edited by DomValela - December 13 2010 at 19:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2010 at 12:42

I have always loved Genesis.  Musically I like the PG years more, but for music AND voice, I would say my favorite era of Genesis is 1976-78.   The hackett/collins years (including andthentherewere3).

Collins was a good singer then.  I heard he didn't start his bombastic shouting until Conny Plank told him he was "a soul singer" in 79-80.  I don't know if there is any truth to that, but I think that's when his voice drifted away from my liking.  After 79, it seemed like he did more screaming and shouting then singing.   I think his ego took over.  

Thank god Banks and Rutherford were still writing or Genesis, I think, would have totally gone down the tubes.  I personally still lean to the Banks written stuff anyways.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2010 at 14:39
I do not understand why this topic isn't moved.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 09:19
Gabriel has a nice voice, and I've grown to love it, but at the start I sort of hated it.
Collins, on the other hand, has a more refined voice, which I don't like quite as much. It's still fairly good, though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 12:06
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

PC sings very well on Seconds Out and the first post-PG-era albums. Definitely he could sing, maybe better than Gabriel from a technical viewpoint, but Gabriel had a much more personal voice and singing style and I undoubtedly prefer Gabriel, especially when the question refers to his era songs.
 
The question is somewhat unfair because we have heard PC singing PG songs but not the opposite (to my knowledge) so we can not tell for sure who of them is best at re-working the other's vocals.
 
 
I'm not too sure that PG would be interested in singing PC's sentimental slop. PC can't put any real feel into old Genesis stuff cos' he did'nt write the songs, and does'nt know the motivation behind them. That's the difference for me.......Collins may be the singer, but Gabriel was the song.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 15:40
Phil made it great as soon as Gabriel left.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 15:43
I think Phil is a good singer (and a fantastic drummer) at least the last years of the seventies.But  he lacked Peter Gabriels warmth. I´ll go for feeling any time over technique.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 17:31
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe that the only Gabriel song that Collins sung better than Peter was I know what I Like.

The rest...Gabriel by light years.

Iván
 
I wouldn't go as far as light years for this comparison. The bravura Phil added to the In the Cage medley on Three Sides Live made Gabriel's album version seem flat. I mean it's everything you'd want Collins to be on an old Gabriel-sung song. And I'll contend till my dying day that what Collins achieved with A Trick of the Tail greatly lessened the drama of Gabriel's flight from the band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2010 at 00:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2010 at 15:15
both great but gabriel is beyond great!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2010 at 17:15
Originally posted by esky esky wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe that the only Gabriel song that Collins sung better than Peter was I know what I Like.

The rest...Gabriel by light years.

Iván
 
I wouldn't go as far as light years for this comparison. The bravura Phil added to the In the Cage medley on Three Sides Live made Gabriel's album version seem flat. I mean it's everything you'd want Collins to be on an old Gabriel-sung song. And I'll contend till my dying day that what Collins achieved with A Trick of the Tail greatly lessened the drama of Gabriel's flight from the band.

Are you crazy?

In the Cage is one of the worst tracks by Colins

Gabriel version expresses fear, claustrophobia, and panic, his semi yodel creates a sensation of anguish and being hopelessly trapped, while Collins version is flat with no changes.

An artist must convince, and while Gabriel version creates the sensation of being trapped in a cage, Collins transmits nothing, it's well sung, but emotionless.

Now, A Trick of the Tail is no Gabriel album, but being you entered into that territory, I must say that is beautiful, but closer to the way you will narrate a fairy story to a child, compare with the brutal violence of The Knife, Musical Box or the dramatic capture of Hermafroditus body  in Fountain of Salmacis.

I insist, miles behind.

Iván



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 22 2010 at 17:19
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2010 at 17:38
Phil did a good job of taking over - a very good job - but a copy isn't an original. Gabriel wasn't necessarily the better singer, but he had character and depth and a voice of his own. It's not really fair to expect Phil to do the early Gabriel songs and yet transcend what was there before; generally, that doesn't work, and I don't think you can say that Phil outdid Gabriel in that respect, though he too had a voice of his own when it came to the 'new' Genesis songs. 
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