For my Libertarian friends

Equality 7-2521 wrote: When Lincoln uttered that phrase he was referring to the entire that government. For the record, that was after he has suspended Habeas Corpus for Americans, imprisoned Congressmen, and was in the process of destroying a country which had the audacity to withdraw from the supposed contract that is the Constitution. The Congress doesn't represent you just because it was named the representative branch. It certainly doesn't represent me.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't like Lincoln. Sic semper tyrannis, indeed.

The South will rise again!

(slavery and all)

Edited by Kestrel - December 15 2010 at 22:30

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Don't worry our coalition is two people strong.

Well, not sure if I'd say I dislike him...but yeah he certainly, er...over stepped his Presidential boundaries by a good bit and violated a right or two.
And the who slavery civil war thing making up for it kinda feels fake since Lincoln was a racist, (maybe against slavery but was very racist, and as we know (?) wanted to send them back to Africa) and the Civil War was originally NOT about freeing the slaves.
That was more a move later on to keep will high.

Granted when many troops saw the conditions they were horrified and honestly became abolitionist.

So yeah, Lincoln was pretty complex.
As many Presidents were


Edited by JJLehto - December 15 2010 at 23:16

Kestrel wrote: JJLehto wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Don't worry our coalition is two people strong.  Well, not sure if I'd say I dislike him...but yeah he certainly, er...over stepped his Presidential boundaries by a good bit and violated a right or two. And the who slavery civil war thing making up for it kinda feels fake since Lincoln was a racist, (maybe against slavery but was very racist, and as we know (?) wanted to send them back to Africa) and the Civil War was originally NOT about freeing the slaves. That was more a move later on to keep will high. Granted when many troops saw the conditions they were horrified and honestly became abolitionist. So yeah, Lincoln was pretty complex. The South seceded because of slavery.

.....thanks?

And if you REALLY want to split hairs....
That was the final straw yes, and turned out to be the major argument but a real divide between North and South was growing for a long time over states rights. Although slavery was the catalyst, yes.

True, as far as I know. However, the war started because the South seceded because of slavery. They were angry over states rights because of slavery. Slavery was the root cause of the entire war.

The T wrote: Pat, Llama, what do you think would have happened in this USA if the South had won the civil war?

I would live in the happy, free Confederate States of America and Pat would live in the United States of America and we be trading partners and remain united in our mutual hatred of Canada and Mexico. I honestly don't think slavery would have lasted too much longer even without the war. No nation that condoned it would have been accepted as a major force going into the twentieth century.

Kestrel wrote: True, as far as I know. However, the war started because the South seceded because of slavery. They were angry over states rights because of slavery. Slavery was the root cause of the entire war.

Maybe he should say please...

I don't know why, but the constant use of urge and curb is really annoying me. It's not as bad as Czar or -gate, but it feels like doublespeak.

Epignosis wrote: Maybe he should say please...

The conversation went two different ways:

Group A (Honest Businesses):

Obama: "Yo, hire some people, because this unemployment sucks."
CEOs: "How can you expect us to hire at a time like this? The fundamentals of the market remain terrible. It's impossible to assess risk due to uncertainty in tax rates and  the Fed's monetary manipulation, vagueness of massive new legislation which has yet to be fully digested, and the lurking possibility of further legislation being passed. Current unemployment rates are just a sympton of the massive distortions in the market, not a cause of our economic downturn."
Obama: "Huh?"

Group B (Other Businesses):
Obama: "Yo, hire some people, because this unemployment sucks."
CEOs: "If we do what do we get?"
Obama: "Too big to fail status, guaranteed contracts, and a 100 billion dollar check with the next round of QE."
CEOs: "Done deal."

------------------------------
The Press: "Group B businesses after meeting with President Obama are taking an aggressive stance on unemployment hiring millions of people to help stimulate the economy and turn around the recession. Meanwhile greedy Group A businessmen decide to hoard their money, swell their bank accounts while laughing at the poor downtrodden public.




Edited by Equality 7-2521 - December 17 2010 at 12:35