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Textbook 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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 Posted: December 10 2010 at 00:54 |
But it's pretty wierd to go to fight for your country on the condition that you not die. Rookie soldiers, especially not particularly willing ones who've been drafted, constantly imagine and anticipate their own death. I don't think people would be like "Well I'll fight for them because there's no chance I'll die." So it's kind of the same thing to me.
As for the transition to the global government, I think both of your alternatives will occur. I think there will be a WWIII in which China will be the major instigator. The alliance that forms around the Western nations will "win". Afterwards ideas of the importance of nationality will fraction even more rapidly than they have, plus the realisation will grow that competition between countries only causes strife and makes it impossible to face major challenges like environmental change and space colonisations. This will slowly cause more things like the EU to form but in ever more fundamental and widely scoped terms. Eventually different regions will become like states in a single global nation. I do not anticipate one country being the boss- we are entering a post super-nation era, and the USA will be the last one. China has plans to replace it as the new super-nation but after everyone's experiences with the USA there will be massive resistance to its plans and this will help lead into the war I mentioned before.
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 01:34 |
Coming into this poll way way late.........put it this way, i would die for every soldier who puts his life on the line for most causes, be it a Kiwi trooper or USA trooper in Afghanistan or Iraq. I admire and love the courage of soldiers ( regardless of whether we agree with the battle or not), so if that means would I die for my country by dying for a soldier....yes, most definitely.
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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GaryB
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 451
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 09:09 |
Equality 7-whatever...so, you're ashamed of anyone who allows themselves to be drafted?
In the first place, you're a punk-ass little twenty-three year old who hasn't earned the right to be ashamed of anyone.
Whiny little liberals like you with BBs for balls disgust me. Your kind are no better than the spineless smudges that spit on troops returning from Nam.
All of you liberals belong in a commune singing folk songs around the campfire.
That is as long as someone else is willing to fight for your right to do so.
If you want to be ashamed of someone, be ashamed of yourself.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 09:14 |
 GaryB wrote:
Equality 7-whatever
Whiny little liberals like you
All of you liberals belong in a commune singing folk songs around the campfire.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 09:39 |
Chris S wrote:
Coming into this poll way way late.........put it this way, i would die for every soldier who puts his life on the line for most causes, be it a Kiwi trooper or USA trooper in Afghanistan or Iraq. I admire and love the courage of soldiers ( regardless of whether we agree with the battle or not), so if that means would I die for my country by dying for a soldier....yes, most definitely. |
What if the soldier in question was on the other side? Assuming that you agreed with the battle then I asssume that you would side with the trooper of your country or its alies, but what if you disagree with the battle? Then you must hold each side in the dispute in equal standing or regard, and would be willing to die for a trooper from either side. A soldier is a soldier regardless of which cause he fights for and however just the cause - each believes they are on the side of right and on the side of the good, each are fighting for their country, their ideology or whatever. What if a soldier on the opposite side is a conscript who does not agree with the battle, but fights because he is forced to (because to refuse to is treason, desertion and certain death) ... would you die for him? What if your country was the agressor, invading a foreign soil? The soldiers there are not fighting for their country, they're fighting for someone elses country in the name of your country. What of a civil war? Both sides are fighting for their country and you could have the situation of kin against kin - which soldier do you die for?
Back in the 18th century would you have died for a British, French, Dutch or Spanish soldier? - would you have died for an Iroquois or a Cherokee?
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What?
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 10:17 |
^ Ok let me clarify..............I was talking mostly in the most recent of times. I do not think I would have condoned the scramble for Africa where all the Europeans decided to send troops in and cherry pick Africa like it was a newfound candy store. Again even if it was blind loyalty, young troops, whether they knew right from wrong put their asses on the line. I admire that.
Do I condone the West admonishing Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan? Yes. Do I admire the balls and strength of those soldiers whether the cause is right....yes. Do I condone suicide bombers targeting innocent folk.....never.
Do I sypmathise with the Palestinian cause.....absolutely. Do I admire Palestinians fighting for some kind of freedom, yes, but for those soldiers who fight for their cause. Do I admire the Israeli soldier for protecting what was given to them post WW2 after and the ethnic attempts at deleting their heritage....absolutely.
Did I support the South African white regime to fight ' Communism" and it's border pre Mandela....no, I abhorred everything about it, did I love the soldiers who were mostly mandatory conscripts, getting limbs blown off in Angola and Mocambique, yes! Did I admire and respect freedom fighters like the ANC who did resort to bombing innocent people in their fight for freedom, no. Did I respect their reason to fight for freedom, absolutely.
I look at the grey and the blue and the American civil war, what a waste of lives, but I still bow to the trooper, be it blind ignorance, or mandatory conscript, or even plain patriotic bravado......who confront death regardless of what is right or wrong. They confront their destiny. Am I a pacifist, absolutely. To be honest I would rather all these people put down weapons and picked up bongs, but their ain't no economic stimulus selling bongs, so war will continue. Either way I admire the soldier. Call it compassion and when I see a whole bunch of USA troops moving through airport turnstiles, just returning froma sojourn in the Middle East, man I feel for those guys/girls and fully respect their intentions.
Now if you are talking about some of them generals who get decorated for fighting behind the lines......( Sorry stole an Asia line :-)....) I am not so sure.
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 10:39 |
GaryB wrote:
Equality 7-whatever...so, you're ashamed of anyone who allows themselves to be drafted?
In the first place, you're a punk-ass little twenty-three year old who hasn't earned the right to be ashamed of anyone.
Whiny little liberals like you with BBs for balls disgust me. Your kind are no better than the spineless smudges that spit on troops returning from Nam.
All of you liberals belong in a commune singing folk songs around the campfire.
That is as long as someone else is willing to fight for your right to do so.
If you want to be ashamed of someone, be ashamed of yourself. |
Cocaine intensifies your personality...yes but what if you're an a$$hole.
Bill Cosby.
Put down the crack pipe dude. It makes you think like a 11 year old. Real issues are complex. That's why we're having a discussion here.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 10:45 |
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^ That's a tad harsh......
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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GaryB
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 451
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 10:57 |
Negoba
I don't see what your comments about drugs have to do with anything being said here.
BTW...you're 38 years old, time to stop calling people 'dude'.
And you say I act like an eleven year old?
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 11:42 |
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This is fun. How old am I, GaryB?
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 11:47 |
Epignosis wrote:
GaryB wrote:
Equality 7-whatever
Whiny little liberals like you
All of you liberals belong in a commune singing folk songs around the campfire.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 11:49 |
GaryB wrote:
Negoba
I don't see what your comments about drugs have to do with anything being said here.
BTW...you're 38 years old, time to stop calling people 'dude'.
And you say I act like an eleven year old?
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1) Maybe because it appears you're on crack...
2) Oh come on by 38 we should all stop posting in childish web forums!
3) No he doesn't. We ALL do.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 13:07 |
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Would you die for your country if it was on the point to be invaded by Björk?
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 15:27 |
GaryB wrote:
Equality 7-whatever...so, you're ashamed of anyone who allows themselves to be drafted?
In the first place, you're a punk-ass little twenty-three year old who hasn't earned the right to be ashamed of anyone.
Whiny little liberals like you with BBs for balls disgust me. Your kind are no better than the spineless smudges that spit on troops returning from Nam.
All of you liberals belong in a commune singing folk songs around the campfire.
That is as long as someone else is willing to fight for your right to do so.
If you want to be ashamed of someone, be ashamed of yourself. |
Gary why have you just entered my life now? I feel cheated. Excuse me but I'm going back to reading Marx and initiating class warfare while American troops occupy foreign countries to protect me.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions
Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17627
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 17:02 |
WHICH COUNTRY???  Can you tell me where my country lies?
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40footwolf
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 651
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 17:10 |
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If America was legitimately threatened by something incredibly serious, I'd enlist. I'm as Liberal as they come but I'm also a patriot and I put a lot of stock in the American way of life.
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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Online
Points: 16913
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 18:06 |
40footwolf wrote:
If America was legitimately threatened by something incredibly serious, I'd enlist. I'm as Liberal as they come but I'm also a patriot and I put a lot of stock in the American way of life. |
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions
Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17627
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 18:14 |
........... right or wrong ........ it's my country ........ 
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 18:25 |
GaryB wrote:
Negoba
I don't see what your comments about drugs have to do with anything being said here.
BTW...you're 38 years old, time to stop calling people 'dude'.
And you say I act like an eleven year old?
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Dude, whassup? 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions
Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17627
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Posted: December 10 2010 at 18:52 |
Rivertree wrote:
WHICH COUNTRY???
Can you tell me where my country lies?
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Now once again ... can you tell me where my country lies? my home is in Germany ... but I've been present to nearly every country in Europe more or less ...  ... have friends who are from the UK, Turkey, Italy, Poland, Russia and what else ... I don't know ... it doesn't matter ... for what should I die for?
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Would You Die For Your Country?
