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The Wrinkler View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2010 at 16:20
I'll admit, at first I thought ELP were a bit over rated. But to me, it took some time for me to grasp the full pretentious sound of ELP, and once you can acquire that sound, they are the best at what they do. Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2010 at 18:10
Like most people I loved the early albums,with the odd wince at dud tracks eg The Sheriff.And kinda lost interest as they went along.
What was interesting to me was Black Moon was a real return to form and a great album - somewhat overlooked though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2010 at 18:43
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

oops sorry how did that ahappen
 
I think you were trying to do the next cover sideways left, the next one upside down, the next one sideways right, the next one on the back side ... gosh, even Hipgnosis would have thought that was funny!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2010 at 21:21
Originally posted by Heathcliffe Heathcliffe wrote:

Like most people I loved the early albums,with the odd wince at dud tracks eg The Sheriff.And kinda lost interest as they went along.
What was interesting to me was Black Moon was a real return to form and a great album - somewhat overlooked though.


Yeah, Black Moon is a rather cool album, but still I wouldn't call it a return to form. For me, it is mostly a rather good POP album, with some hints at prog (Specially the Romeo & Juliet thing, ofcourse).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2010 at 21:25
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Heathcliffe Heathcliffe wrote:

Like most people I loved the early albums,with the odd wince at dud tracks eg The Sheriff.And kinda lost interest as they went along.
What was interesting to me was Black Moon was a real return to form and a great album - somewhat overlooked though.


Yeah, Black Moon is a rather cool album, but still I wouldn't call it a return to form. For me, it is mostly a rather good POP album, with some hints at prog (Specially the Romeo & Juliet thing, ofcourse).

I agree Black Moon is a great album and it has a real deep sounds. I don't think it is prog like their early stuff, but it is good. The Piano songs are real great.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2010 at 18:48
About ELP, i'm in love with the two T, TARKUS and TRILOGY are my happiness, i just remenber when i discovered them, i was 17, i was waiting for APHRODITE'S CHILD 666 release (prohibed at the time ) and a school friend brought me TARKUS what a revelation!!!so great keyboard work and sounds, i think their live performances are sometimes a bit too much but i still love their records.I even like the ones nobody like ,like emerson lake and powel
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2010 at 20:19
My friends, we've been down this road many times before.  I'll keep saying it...they were for a brief time the finest progressive rock band on the planet, Yes and Crimson and Floyd notwithstanding.  As has been the case for many rock bands, and that is what they were at best -- a rock band -- they lost their way.  But there 's no reason to dismiss those first four or five albums, which if there's some open ears about, are amongst the best ever recorded, warts and all.
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Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2010 at 20:57
My opinion
  1. Capable of releasing masterpieces: Trilogy and BSS
  2. Capable of releasing mediocre albums Works I and Black Moon
  3. Guilty of releasing terrible albums like Love Beach, Works II and In the Hot Seat
  4. Criminally responsible of releasing pure crap (one of the few times I use this term) like Re-Works (Brain Salad Perjury).
  5. They reached their peak too soon
  6. They lost it also too soon
  7. Genesis had an excuse for the 80's (no Hackett and Gabriel), ELP had no excuse.
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 26 2010 at 21:37
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2010 at 21:34
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

My opinion
  1. Capable of releasing masterpieces: Trilogy and BSS
  2. Capable of releasing mediocre albums Works I and Black Moon
  3. Guiltye of releasing terrible albums like Love Beach, Works II and In the Hot Seat
  4. Criminally responsible of releasing pure crap (one of the few times I use this term) like Re-Works (Brain Salad Perjury).
  5. They reached their peak too soon
  6. They lost it also too soon
  7. Genesis had an excuse for the 80's (no Hackett and Gabriel), ELP had no excuse.
Iván

Ouch So cruel.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2010 at 06:44
I would also consider the debut album as a masterpiece. There is no weak track on it. The classical 'covers' like "The Barbarian" and "Knife Edge" are wonderful, "Take A Pebble" is ELP's first classic (more or less) epic track, "The Three Fates" showed Emerson's unique talent for composition and soloing, "Tank" was a unique track, because of the way it was put together and the texture (synth sounds) and "Lucky Man" showed Lake's sense for melody and Emerson's instinctive talents for his soloing - at - the - spot on the Moog.
 
It's interesting, though, that Carl Palmer in an interview said that he couldn't understand why the first record was an instant smash. He said he didn't like organ drenched pieces like "The Three Fates". Personally, I love the track, but I can see his point. BSS shows best what ELP could do as a group. In that respect it's also interesting to look at a moment of group rehearsal for "Karn Evil 9" on the Beyond The Beginning dvd , where you can see that on the one hand Emerson was dominating the group clearly, but on the other hand that the group was nevertheless a tight working unit, really giving 100% to deliver a masterpiece.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2010 at 07:47
Those First 4(studio) albums are wonderful wonderful  records  i have never listen to any of the others so wouldn't know but i do know i love those first 4 albums .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2010 at 08:46
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

My opinion
  1. Capable of releasing masterpieces: Trilogy and BSS
  2. Capable of releasing mediocre albums Works I and Black Moon
  3. Guilty of releasing terrible albums like Love Beach, Works II and In the Hot Seat
  4. Criminally responsible of releasing pure crap (one of the few times I use this term) like Re-Works (Brain Salad Perjury).
  5. They reached their peak too soon
  6. They lost it also too soon
  7. Genesis had an excuse for the 80's (no Hackett and Gabriel), ELP had no excuse.
Iván
Cruel but true
 
 
 
I agree that ELP are a band you can love and hate in intervals
 
 
one year they are brilliant the next they lose their focus. Overall though the band are indispensable
 
 
After hearing Take A Pebble, it was the first time I knew I had heard genuine prog music. I was only 15.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2010 at 08:48
Best ELP
 
1st.... Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends
 (2nd BRAIN SALAD SURGERY; 3rd TARKUS)
4th... Trilogy
5th... debut
6th.... Works, side 4
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2010 at 08:58
Well, I haven't mention all the albums

1.- Debut: Very good
2.- Pictures at an Exhibition: Excellent and revolutionary, not a masterpiece, but still rated with 5 stars for reasons I mentioned in my review
3.- Tarkus: I find it boring and overrated (even when I hate this term), but still I recognize it has the touch of the genius
4.- Welcome Back my Friends....: One of the best live albums I ever heard, but live albums are pure performance not composition.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 27 2010 at 09:00
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2010 at 10:56
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

...they were for a brief time the finest progressive rock band on the planet, Yes and Crimson and Floyd notwithstanding.

Let's see, I will chalk up their albums with the other great albums of their year of release.

1970  (s/t) - Third and H to He to contend with. Coin toss between ELP and Third, H to He pips both. 

1971 (Tarkus) - Brilliant album, my favourite from ELP, but will take Meddle, Acquiring The Taste, Nursery Cryme and Aqualung over it.  

1972 (Trilogy) - Never been one of my favourites and this is another very strong year for prog. Close to the Edge, Foxtrot, Thick as a Brick, Octopus. Blown away. 

1973 (Brain Salad Surgery) - My second favourite ELP album but once again, plenty of amazing albums to choose from - Dark Side, Selling England by The Pound, Larks Tongue in Aspic, In A Glass House.  Nope.  

Haven't heard both Works albums and though the ratings don't suggest anything to choose over Wind and Wuthering, Novella, Animals, A Farewell to Kings or Going for the One, I won't comment.  I am actually quite 'lenient' on Love Beach and would take it over Tormato and And Then There Were Three but not over Song for All Seasons and certainly not over Hemispheres.  There's also Canterbury's last stand Question Of Queues and Cures to be contended with.  

In summary, they frequently put it over one or other of the best prog rock bands and deserve to be mentioned alongside them - which they are in any case! - but never quite got to the very top.  Their start was very strong, not to mention influential, but they don't seem to have grown from thereon and not after Tarkus at any rate.  Genesis and Yes went from strength to strength from their own modest starts and KC had a monstrous second coming.  A band with enormous talent and potential but, as harsh as it may be to say so, perhaps they didn't quite make the most of it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2010 at 11:35
I loved them at first - then went through a long period where they represented to me everything that was wrong with progressive music.  I've recently come back around however.  Currently I love listening to them, but I cant watch them or those old feelings start coming back.

Edited by Tychovski - November 28 2010 at 09:57
Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974, it's a scientific fact.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2010 at 12:29
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

...they were for a brief time the finest progressive rock band on the planet, Yes and Crimson and Floyd notwithstanding.

Let's see, I will chalk up their albums with the other great albums of their year of release.

1970  (s/t) - Third and H to He to contend with. Coin toss between ELP and Third, H to He pips both. 


You write off so many equally memorable albums here. 

King Crimson's In The Wake... in my opinion stronger and more complete than it's predecessor

Trespass maybe Hackett and Collinsless but it is one of Genesis' finest.

Gentle Giants Debut needs no explanation

Egg's self titled debut is easy to compare to ELP  an upcoming prog trio exploring amazing new musical styles

And you mentioned Third but forgot the real canterbury classic from that year -  Caravan's If I Could Do It All Over Again... This album can't be forgotten, in my opinion the finest work from Canterbury scene
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2010 at 03:51
I haven't heard If I would do it all over again...., don't know that I want to given I didn't like its more illustrious successor from 1971 so much.  I want to listen to that Egg album though, strikingly like ELP indeed.  I like Trespass and In the Wake of Poseidon but deliberately didn't bring them up because I don't consider them better than the ELP debut.  In the Wake..is too much in Court's shadow and Genesis are still finding their feet on Trespass and Hackett and Collins would give their music much needed propulsion.  Regardless, the year of ELP's debut remains the year for me when they came out strongest against other releases. With each passing year, there were more and more great albums but ELP didn't get all that better.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2010 at 15:03
I like ELP a lot and every album (well, at least the first five) has some wonderful moments and some great moments but also parts I don't at all appreciate.
The interesting thing is that the first four studio albums are very similar, so I guess rogerthat is right, the first album was as good as it got. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2010 at 15:42
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

My opinion
  1. Capable of releasing masterpieces: Trilogy and BSS
  2. Capable of releasing mediocre albums Works I and Black Moon
  3. Guilty of releasing terrible albums like Love Beach, Works II and In the Hot Seat
  4. Criminally responsible of releasing pure crap (one of the few times I use this term) like Re-Works (Brain Salad Perjury).
  5. They reached their peak too soon
  6. They lost it also too soon
  7. Genesis had an excuse for the 80's (no Hackett and Gabriel), ELP had no excuse.
Iván
Ivan ,at least ELP had a peak! A couple of 'masterpeices' is not bad in my book.
 
I'm puzzled by a few things in your post.
 
Firstly when did Brain Salad Perjury become part of ELP's back catologue?
 
As I understand it (ignoring ELPowell and all the compilations and box sets) this is it:
 
Emerson,Lake and Palmer
Tarkus
Pictures At An Exhibition
Trilogy
Brain Salad Surgery
Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends
Works Volume One
Works Volume Two
Love Beach
In Concert (reissued as Works Live)
Black Moon
Live At The Royal Albert Hall
In The Hot Seat
 
 
Also the last comment about Genesis. What does this mean exactly? Are you saying that ELP were more talented than the 3 man line up of Genesis? Even as an ELP fan I'm not sure I agree.Would call it a draw.Wink
 
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