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Valarius 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 08 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1480
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 Posted: November 18 2010 at 10:16 |
Hell no. As long as I survive I'm not bothered. 
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Paravion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2010
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 470
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Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:39 |
No. I hate Denmark. Hopefully it will dissolve at some point in the future and humankind will stop identifying themselves relative to the location where they happen to be born.
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Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34055
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Posted: November 18 2010 at 12:01 |
^ what is it with Denmark you don't like (or is it anything with Denmark you rather like or should be brought back, preserved)
I have nothing against Denmark (on March the 27th I will have reasons to differ that statement when our national squads/teams/armies are gona play against eachother in a very important Euro Cup qualifying match which will become more important then a simple football game )
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: November 18 2010 at 14:01 |
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MARSEILLE, I WOULD NEVER LET YOU DOWN
I WILL GO AND SHOOT, SHOOT AGAIN
ON THE GREEN FIELDS OF THE VELODROME
TO WIN OR PERISH IN THE SOCCER GAME!
PARIS AND ITS WIMPS
WILL NEVER SUCCEED
TO TAKE BACK THE CUP
THAT BELONGS TO US
....
Oh, after all, dying at a soccer game would be rather stupid.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 18 2010 at 14:16 |
 aginor wrote:
^ what is it with Denmark you don't like (or is it anything with Denmark you rather like or should be brought back, preserved)
I have nothing against Denmark (on March the 27th I will have reasons to differ that statement when our national squads/teams/armies are gona play against eachother in a very important Euro Cup qualifying match which will become more important then a simple football game ) |
Denmark would be OK if weren't for all the Danish living there. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Online
Points: 66253
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Posted: November 18 2010 at 14:19 |
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Yep, those Danishes are definitely bad for the diet.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 02:09 |
Textbook wrote:
By "for your country" I mean because the government asks so, reasons irrelevant. This may seem like an idiotic prospect to people today- I'm not going to die just because a politician requests it- but not that long ago you would have found plenty of people who felt it was their solemn duty to leap under a passing bus if their queen or president requested it. What I'm saying is that feeling has deteriorated (well not everywhere, it's very much alive in China for example) and now people are saying either "no" or "yes but only if there was some sort of threat" which actually means no because you're reacting to the threat, not the will of the country's leaders. |
I have trouble believing you would ever get somebody to do that, I really don't think it's very much alive in China. Basically, [citation needed]
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 02:34 |
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Seeing as I regard things like countries to be artificial constructs that only exist in people's minds and on paper, a political country isn't a thing worth fighting for. In reality it's NOT THERE! You are a subject of lifelong CONDITIONING.
You'd just be told to defend one repression against the other. Grotesquely enough quite often somewhere very, very far away from home.
In the end it's all about economic interests and power, and strangely enough, always someone elses.
If you fight for your country, you're a mug. An you'll come home in one.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 03:17 |
npjnpj wrote:
Seeing as I regard things like countries to be artificial constructs that only exist in people's minds and on paper, a political country isn't a thing worth fighting for. In reality it's NOT THERE! You are a subject of lifelong CONDITIONING.You'd just be told to defend one repression against the other. Grotesquely enough quite often somewhere very, very far away from home.In the end it's all about economic interests and power, and strangely enough, always someone elses.If you fight for your country, you're a mug. An you'll come home in one. |
I agree with some of what you are saying. But I think if you're country was being invaded by a power who wanted to impose a life of bread queues, soup kitchens curfews and regular beatings from the authorities, no internet, no independent news media, no free speech whatsoever, you might be inclined to at least object, don't you think?
The only way - in theory - to stop all wars would be to impose a global government, a global currency, and a global army, so there are no longer any opposing sides. Anyone who thinks that will work is insane. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I believe that. There would, if anything be an increase in conflict, as the global police force faught terrorists opposed to global governance; be they real terrorists or merely an invention of the global 'state' to keep their people in fear, under surveilance and in a state of curfew.
Edited by Blacksword - November 19 2010 at 03:18
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 04:32 |
npjnpj wrote:
If you fight for your country, you're a mug. An you'll come home in one. |
With the greatest of respect, there are those (some on this forum) who may have fought for their country, or may have lost a friend or relative, in past or current conflicts who may consider this statement deeply offensive.
When it comes to principles, you cannot generalise in this way.
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Philamelian
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 01 2009
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 67
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 04:54 |
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When you look at relations between modern governments in a broad sense it's not far different than the human clans in early ages. So it seems all the intellectual development has no benefit on this issue if you exclude the complexity of paperwork and organisations etc. State of belonging (to a human group, a cultural entity) , territory , food is still basic facts which is governing the relations of states and nations.
I find the word "nation" a bit exaggerated. It's filled with concepts which is changing from time to time.
I agree with the global government idea but it's like a dream far far away. And I think this should be something that human race should reach naturally but I am not sure if you leave human race in a test lab like world and wait for millions years it would come true.
I wouldn't want to loose my only real belonging, my life, for a territory on earth. I hope others (states, people, animals, aliens :) ) don't couse any threat on me as well.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 06:36 |
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I'm quite suprised the amount of support the concept of global government gets. Not specifically here, but generally among people I know.
It's something that needs to be looked at from a pragmatic and intellectual perspective, not an idealistic socialist one. The current arrangement of nation states may seem flawed to some people, but currently, if someones life is threatened, or they are pursecuted in their nation of orign they have the option - if they can - of fleeing that nation and seeking assylum in another, more sympathetic to their plight. In a system of global government this individual would be an enemy of the world, and not able to seek assylum anywhere. Their only crime may be opposing the structure of global governance.
I'm amazed people have such faith in the goodwill and honesty of politicans they normally would trust as far as they could throw, to implement global government, and then trust them NOT to abuse this enormous level of unnacoutable power they will have vested in themselves. The idea is insane, idealistic and unworkable and must be agressively opposed at every turn.
Edited by Blacksword - November 19 2010 at 06:53
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 06:43 |
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Ah, but in a global government there would be no reason for anybody to disagree.
Under that government nobody would be poor or unhappy. Well, at least nobody important.
Edited by npjnpj - November 19 2010 at 06:43
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 06:51 |
npjnpj wrote:
Ah, but in a global government there would be no reason for anybody to disagree.Under that government nobody would be poor or unhappy. Well, at least nobody important.
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I'm assuming you're being ironic. At least I hope so, because the world you're describing is a fantasy. In fact it's a dystopian nightmare vision of hell.
Edited by Blacksword - November 19 2010 at 06:53
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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LateralMe
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 25 2010
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Status: Offline
Points: 115
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 15:17 |
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Nope
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A Flower!?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 15:36 |
Governments are all dysfunctional. Why not do it on a bigger scale?
Edited by Slartibartfast - November 19 2010 at 15:38
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 15:40 |
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Nope. And I'd rather not die for anyone elses country either.
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What?
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 16:15 |
There are lots of things that could come under "Die for your country?"
Would I volunteer in a disaster zone where riots might take my life? Maybe.
Would I go to the site of an infectious disease outbreak where obviously I could fall victim? Maybe. Both depend on how much I thought I was needed / could actually help?
Would I serve as a military doctor in a war zone? In very specific circumstances
Would I pick up a rifle and fight? No, that's not my role.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 17:02 |
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I find it revealing that people 'cherry pick' those human constructs they point out as being imaginary and 'not real' e.g. countries, patriotism, sovereignty, allegiance etc while extolling the values of democracy, privacy, free speech, pluralism etc as if the latter were somehow inalienable rights that obeyed natural laws. All our values are man-made.
Most wars seem to be waged to allow us the right to condemn their stupidity.
Like many posters have stated already, yes (I like to think) I would die for my chosen values but would be fighting against those who don't even have a choice. (Those with nothing to lose are the fiercest adversaries)
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 17:18 |
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I guess you are also ready to kill for your country, aren't you all who said "yes"?
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Would You Die For Your Country?
