For my Libertarian friends

thellama73 wrote: Epignosis wrote: Story time! Once upon a time (let's just say 1932 in Wisconsin) Equality has made a deal with people in his business.  They sell cartoon porn, by the way, just so you know.  He is so sure cartoon porn will sell forever that he will set aside money for his employees, a little bit each pay period, in the event that there must be layoffs.  Wait, no, I got that wrong- he isn't really that nice or optimistic- Equality is pretty damn mean- but this cat named The T told him he had no choice in the matter.  Employees need to be protected in case something bad happens to the company they work for. Well, consumers start needing to cut back on their cartoon porn budget as they begin losing their jobs.  This means Equality is losing money and after a while, has no choice but to lay people off to keep his business afloat.  So he just pays them out of the nice little nest egg The T has created for them.  Unfortunately, he has to lay off more and more workers because, goshdarnit, people just aren't into Jessica Rabbit like they used to be.  After laying off 12% of his entire workforce, he realizes he has run out of money to pay these people the benefits he has promised. So Equality calls The T.  (The T is like Mr. T only without gold chains, a mohawk, and black skin.  Also, something about Dream Theater.)  Anyway, Equality asks The T if he can get a loan to pay for these benefits.  The T grins (apparently there's gold in his mouth) real big, and says "Sure!"  And just to show what a pal he is, The T says "By the way, this loan is interest free!" Equality is thrilled!  He makes cartoon porn for a couple months more (this time of the Spongebob variety), paying out benefits to people as he promised.  But business doesn't pick up, so sadly, he must lay off Padraic and several more people.  The loan from The T isn't going to last after all. "No worries," Equality says to himself.  "I'll take another loan from The T.  I'm sure he won't mind."  And The T didn't.  He happily gave Equality the second loan to keep paying the benefits he promised to pay.  Again, interest free. Llama runs a huge foreign business.  He needs some cash, and remembers that it's time for some of his borrowers to pay up.  He contacts The T.  (Okay, pretend Llama sits in a chair and you never see his face, but he has a big metallic claw and is stroking a cat).  The T assures Llama that he can pay back the loan- after all, he's been paying the interest on the loan, hasn't he?  Llama says, "Okay, but be sure to at least get me the interest for this quarter or it will be capitalized into the principal." Grateful, The T gets a hold of JJLehto, an old college buddy who has a huge foreign company.  "Hey man, can you hook me up?"  "Sure man, but how much does it cost to send a condom in the mail?"  "Not that," says The T.  The T explains that he needs money.  "Well I already sent you some loot Wednesday last year.  I need that money back, cos my grandma's birthday is coming up!"  "Look man, I can get it back to you- I'm good for it!  But I need another loan."  JJLehto, being a kind soul and thinking of the incredible interest he can reap, complies.  The T sends Llama a check for the interest on his other loan. The T has to do something though, so he checks on Equality to see how he's doing.  "Hey man, how are you doing?"  "Not good- I just made one with Ariel...ARIEL, dude, from The Little Mermaid.  I even added a bonus feature that involves Sebastian.  He's a crab.  Get it?  Crabs? It was a flop.  And don't even ask me about that threesome with Ursula!"  "Listen Equality, you've got to do something to improve your situation.  You need to start giving out less of those benefits I made you promise your people."  "I already thought of that!  They are threatening to sue and many of them have families and can barely make it as it is!"  "Well in that case, you need to start putting more money aside for them out of your profits," The T suggested.  "No, no, no!  I can't afford it!  I'm already having to lay off more people again next month!" Meanwhile, a homeless man named manofmystery asks people for spare change while drinking Wild Irish Rose (he's not really in the story, but I didn't want him to feel left out or anything). Equality looks at his failing empire.  Just then, he sees a bunch of people sneaking over his gate.  He doesn't speak their language, but finds out they make great cartoon porn.  What's more, they are willing to work for less than what he is paying his other employees.  Even better, they don't mind if he doesn't set aside money in case they lose their jobs!  He can save his business (so long as he doctors his books)!  Equality is happy.  He asks the leader of this crew what his name is. "They call me...Epigñosis!" The End. Based on a true story. I get the feeling that this story is an allegory of something. I'm thinking... the sinking of the lost continent of Atlantis?

Nope- I was just bored.

JJLehto wrote: So Rob is an illegal Mexican? And how did I come to own this huge company!

I'm actually Panamanian.  We're the Panamaniacs. 

You stole it from someone because it was for the greater good. 

I need to ask some questions here, and I guess it's related to this thread topic, so doesn't warrant a thread of its own.

A week or so ago, I watched an Aaron Russo film called 'Freedom to Facism' (I think) where he claimed there was actually no law in the US that stated anyone had to pay income tax. The IRS had, in the past neverthelsss pursued legal proceedings on many who had refused to file a tax return. Russo also claimed that welfare, education and highway maintenance was paid for by local and state taxes, and that income tax purely funded the US military industrial complex (if I remember rightly)

Russo says he is a politcal activist and 'Libertarian' He claims there is no essential differenmce between the democrat party or the republican party, and that they both ultiamtely answer only to the global banks.

My questions are:

1) Do you think he is truly a 'libertarian'?
2) Has the definition of libertarian changed in the last 20 years or so?
3) To what extent is Russos world view shared in the US?

Sorry if this has been covered. I cant plough through over 240 pages of discussion. Maybe someone could summarise if it has been covered.

Edited by Blacksword - November 09 2010 at 07:41

Epignosis wrote: Well, he isn't anything now.  He's been dead for over 3 years.

I know that. Any thoughts on my questions?

Blacksword wrote: I need to ask some questions here, and I guess it's related to this thread topic, so doesn't warrant a thread of its own. A week or so ago, I watched an Aaron Russo film called 'Freedom to Facism' (I think) where he claimed there was actually no law in the US that stated anyone had to pay income tax.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain what the phrase "military industrial complex" means. It sounds like hippy jargonthat allows them to attack business and the military at the same time to me.

thellama73 wrote: I'm still waiting for someone to explain what the phrase "military industrial complex" means. It sounds like hippy jargonthat allows them to attack business and the military at the same time to me.

As Pat said, Eisenhower coined the term. It basically refers to the buddy buddy relationship which developed between defense firms and the US government post WWII since we would then have a standing army.

thellama73 wrote: I always suspected Eisenhower was a secret hippy.

Oh yes, libertarians never flip flop...  

Epignosis wrote: thellama73 wrote: Epignosis wrote: Story time! Once upon a time (let's just say 1932 in Wisconsin) Equality has made a deal with people in his business.  They sell cartoon porn, by the way, just so you know.  He is so sure cartoon porn will sell forever that he will set aside money for his employees, a little bit each pay period, in the event that there must be layoffs.  Wait, no, I got that wrong- he isn't really that nice or optimistic- Equality is pretty damn mean- but this cat named The T told him he had no choice in the matter.  Employees need to be protected in case something bad happens to the company they work for. Well, consumers start needing to cut back on their cartoon porn budget as they begin losing their jobs.  This means Equality is losing money and after a while, has no choice but to lay people off to keep his business afloat.  So he just pays them out of the nice little nest egg The T has created for them.  Unfortunately, he has to lay off more and more workers because, goshdarnit, people just aren't into Jessica Rabbit like they used to be.  After laying off 12% of his entire workforce, he realizes he has run out of money to pay these people the benefits he has promised. So Equality calls The T.  (The T is like Mr. T only without gold chains, a mohawk, and black skin.  Also, something about Dream Theater.)  Anyway, Equality asks The T if he can get a loan to pay for these benefits.  The T grins (apparently there's gold in his mouth) real big, and says "Sure!"  And just to show what a pal he is, The T says "By the way, this loan is interest free!" Equality is thrilled!  He makes cartoon porn for a couple months more (this time of the Spongebob variety), paying out benefits to people as he promised.  But business doesn't pick up, so sadly, he must lay off Padraic and several more people.  The loan from The T isn't going to last after all. "No worries," Equality says to himself.  "I'll take another loan from The T.  I'm sure he won't mind."  And The T didn't.  He happily gave Equality the second loan to keep paying the benefits he promised to pay.  Again, interest free. Llama runs a huge foreign business.  He needs some cash, and remembers that it's time for some of his borrowers to pay up.  He contacts The T.  (Okay, pretend Llama sits in a chair and you never see his face, but he has a big metallic claw and is stroking a cat).  The T assures Llama that he can pay back the loan- after all, he's been paying the interest on the loan, hasn't he?  Llama says, "Okay, but be sure to at least get me the interest for this quarter or it will be capitalized into the principal." Grateful, The T gets a hold of JJLehto, an old college buddy who has a huge foreign company.  "Hey man, can you hook me up?"  "Sure man, but how much does it cost to send a condom in the mail?"  "Not that," says The T.  The T explains that he needs money.  "Well I already sent you some loot Wednesday last year.  I need that money back, cos my grandma's birthday is coming up!"  "Look man, I can get it back to you- I'm good for it!  But I need another loan."  JJLehto, being a kind soul and thinking of the incredible interest he can reap, complies.  The T sends Llama a check for the interest on his other loan. The T has to do something though, so he checks on Equality to see how he's doing.  "Hey man, how are you doing?"  "Not good- I just made one with Ariel...ARIEL, dude, from The Little Mermaid.  I even added a bonus feature that involves Sebastian.  He's a crab.  Get it?  Crabs? It was a flop.  And don't even ask me about that threesome with Ursula!"  "Listen Equality, you've got to do something to improve your situation.  You need to start giving out less of those benefits I made you promise your people."  "I already thought of that!  They are threatening to sue and many of them have families and can barely make it as it is!"  "Well in that case, you need to start putting more money aside for them out of your profits," The T suggested.  "No, no, no!  I can't afford it!  I'm already having to lay off more people again next month!" Meanwhile, a homeless man named manofmystery asks people for spare change while drinking Wild Irish Rose (he's not really in the story, but I didn't want him to feel left out or anything). Equality looks at his failing empire.  Just then, he sees a bunch of people sneaking over his gate.  He doesn't speak their language, but finds out they make great cartoon porn.  What's more, they are willing to work for less than what he is paying his other employees.  Even better, they don't mind if he doesn't set aside money in case they lose their jobs!  He can save his business (so long as he doctors his books)!  Equality is happy.  He asks the leader of this crew what his name is. "They call me...Epigñosis!" The End. Based on a true story. I get the feeling that this story is an allegory of something. I'm thinking... the sinking of the lost continent of Atlantis? Nope- I was just bored.