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Topic ClosedShould marijuana be legalized?

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Poll Question: Should marijuana be legalized?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
105 [80.77%]
25 [19.23%]
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Textbook View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 05:00

That's really not any kind of justification for legalising narcotics.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 11:03
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

That's really not any kind of justification for legalising narcotics.


Who here is arguing that narcotics should be legalized? The only thing I'm defending is the right for an adult to use and grow a virtually harmless plant; a plant that happens to carry the chemical THC (which by the way is only considered a narcotic in the United States.) I'm not arguing that it is healthy for you or good for society. My only argument is that it is an unnecessary and in my opinion ineffective law that does infinitely more harm than good.

The question shouldn't be "what is the justification for legalizing marijuana?" it should be "what is the justification for any specific law that limits personal freedom?" I think if you did some research you will find that in the case of marijuana (because this is obviously not the case for all drugs) the laws were not designed with public health in mind, only private profit. If you want to believe that blatant propaganda, fear tactics, and racist innuendo are justification for marijuana's current legal status (because these things were the only justification used to pass the first marijuana law) then be my guest. If you honestly think marijuana is so bad for you, then I strongly advise you not to use it. I hate the thought of you or anybody else making that decision for the rest of the world though, and that is pretty much what it comes down to. We clearly just see the world in two very different ways. 

The US government mislabels marijuana as a narcotic (and many other "sleep inducing" drugs as well) as a way to designate it as an illegal substance. The term is mostly used in miseducation campaigns, and if you look at the official DEA scheduling list, you will see that marijuana is officially considered a "non-narcotic." A narcotic is actually just any derivative of opium. This demonstrates how easy it is for truth and fiction to be turned on their heads in this country. If your statement is any indication, I would say you have fallen victim to these distortions. I don't blame you though. Do some research. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 11:06
In California, apparently not.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 11:08
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

In California, apparently not.

LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 11:21
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

When has widespread availability of a narcotic or mind altering substance improved society. Just give me one example.

 
I thought so.

Though not an argument, I would ask you then to support the criminalization of alcohol and tobacco please... 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 11:38
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

When has widespread availability of a narcotic or mind altering substance improved society. Just give me one example.
 
I thought so.
Though not an argument, I would ask you then to support the criminalization of alcohol and tobacco please... 
He does, actually, although he acknowledges that it wouldn't work.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 12:13
Well, this is very disappointing. Not very surprising, but still...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 15:10
The T: HP is correct.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:15
By the way: the White House has come out and declared how happy they are about the result against Prop 19, saying that it wouldn't help anything. There's you're 'progressive' administration, for you. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:31
Well they're right. I don't see how enabling people to get high, thus deteriorating their performance both at work and in general society as well as causing criminal groups to move on to more dubious practices/substances in order to maintain their profits, is going to help things.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:42
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

Well they're right. I don't see how enabling people to get high, thus deteriorating their performance both at work and in general society as well as causing criminal groups to move on to more dubious practices/substances in order to maintain their profits, is going to help things.

Sleepy

I'm not going over all the obvious, common sense reasons for why it would help again. All I'm saying at this point is that the people who voted for this administration thought it was going to bring on revolutionary change on favor if the progressive mindset. I'm pointing out how the expectations were all wrong, and this politician is no different than the rest.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:46
Anybody who needed that pointed out at any time is a tool.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 17:16
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

Anybody who needed that pointed out at any time is a tool.

Then the majority of Americans must be tools. We as a country voted Obama into office because we were so dissatisfied with what came out of the previous administration, we thought the change he talked about would be the answer. When people feel desperate they often make decisions based on emotion and not logic. At the same time, look at what we had running against Obama. Pseudo-liberal John McCain and ''you betcha'' Palin? What was the alternative?

I'm just saying that both parties are responsible for where we are now. The republicans dropped the ball when they chose McCain as their frontrunner, and the Independents and Democrats were either forced to choose Obama out of lack of better options, or a desperate hope for real reform. 

It isn't about being gullible or being a tool. It's about what people believed to be true in comparison to what they ultimately got. To say that all politicians will always lie and sell false hope to the people is simply pessimistic and helps no one. We have to sometimes put our trust in these people, or else we've already given up. The tricky part is figuring out who to trust. In 2008, everyone trusted the wrong people. Progressives should especially be disenchanted with what has happened, though. Obama was their guy. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 17:28
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

When has widespread availability of a narcotic or mind altering substance improved society. Just give me one example.

 
I thought so.


Depends on what you mean by widespread availability, and this kind of thing is probably impossible no know, as reliable scientific methods only got into full usage right about when we made everything illegal, but if I had any reputation to stake I would stake all of it that if everyone over the age of 18 took psilocybin mushrooms or something similar once a year, our society would probably be a lot more open-minded, and very likely understanding, loving, and forgiving. I recognize virtually no net negative result form this scenario.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 18:51
JLocke: Politics doesn't work and never will is what I was saying. Just because Obama isn't working out doesn't entail that McCain would have and it's incredibly silly to assume that. But this is another topic.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 19:11
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

JLocke: Politics doesn't work and never will is what I was saying. Just because Obama isn't working out doesn't entail that McCain would have and it's incredibly silly to assume that. But this is another topic.

Did I not just say in my post that everyone chose the wrong people to root for in '08 (that includes McCain's camp)? I just mean the progressives should be especially pissed because their guy one, and followed through on very little. 

And politics in their current state don't work, but we have to believe that things can be changed for the better, or else what are we doing complaining, here? 


Edited by JLocke - November 03 2010 at 19:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 19:16
Complaining seems to be an automatic response to certain situations, I don't think it's something selectively done when it will be purely constructive.
 
I will say though that the two party system sucks. Two is not enough options.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 19:25
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

Complaining seems to be an automatic response to certain situations, I don't think it's something selectively done when it will be purely constructive.
 
I will say though that the two party system sucks. Two is not enough options.

I know why we complain, but if we honestly think nothing with change in politics and things will never get better, we shouldn't bother complaining. To speak out against something is to show the will to change it, I think. So, just be more optimistic, is all I'm saying. Tongue

I agree with you on the two party thing, but when was the last time Independents swept the votes? I honestly am too ignorant on the system behind all of that to even know if or how it would be possible to start federally recognizing more parties. We seem to have a lot of biased laws in place against possible viable third parties, which shows just how un-democratic that aspect of our government is. Plus, if you think congress is divided now, whoo boy . . . 




Edited by JLocke - November 03 2010 at 19:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 19:59
Look at the Liberal Democrats thing in the UK. It can be done...
 
Also we have like six significant parties in NZ and actually it doesn't paralyse the process. I think when you've got that many, they make coalitions and partnerships and get on with it. The opposition isn't totally out in the cold because you're always working with someone.
 
But when you have two parties you get this really destructive goodies/baddies THEM OR US mentality that really can paralyse things.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 20:02
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Depends on what you mean by widespread availability, and this kind of thing is probably impossible no know, as reliable scientific methods only got into full usage right about when we made everything illegal, but if I had any reputation to stake I would stake all of it that if everyone over the age of 18 took psilocybin mushrooms or something similar once a year, our society would probably be a lot more open-minded, and very likely understanding, loving, and forgiving. I recognize virtually no net negative result form this scenario.
I'll admit that I've never experienced a hallucinogen, but I am pretty sure this is hippy bullsh*t.
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