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Topic ClosedDo you like the new PA Header?
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Poll Question: Do you like the new PA Header?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
32 [28.83%]
10 [9.01%]
29 [26.13%]
40 [36.04%]
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Gandalff View Drop Down
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Points: 4214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 02:48
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


I like more the original serious one, not because the collage is bad, but because we have already a personality (this looks more like a fan club art), and also looks too similar to the idea of the  one used by Musica Progresiva.org




Which BTW is much more sober than ours.

But most important, I will talk as a lawyer:

All this drawings are protected by copyright laws, and even when some artists and bands are friendly, some are not.

Even when the author of the "ITCOTCK" has died, the band already protected this art cover with a copyright sign I verified) and King Crimson's lawyers are not famous for authorizing the use of their property.

If I'm not wrong, they already made Prog Archive delete all the samples of King Crimson music.

We are risking ourselves to a legal process, and that will end the site as we know it, because even if we win, the costs will be so high that M@X could be able to close the site.

So unless you have got the EXPRESS CONSENT of each and every artist and band, I would suggest to delete it.

Iván


 
Gosh! Serious warning! We certainly don´t want to this site should be closed.Confused
Simultaneously, I don´t trust that such experienced admins here would make that schoolboyish goof.

Edited by Gandalff - October 14 2010 at 02:49
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:01
^ the admins have no say over how M@X wants the site to look - it is his site, not ours.
What?
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Viajero Astral View Drop Down
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Points: 3118 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:03
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


I like more the original serious one, not because the collage is bad, but because we have already a personality (this looks more like a fan club art), and also looks too similar to the idea of the  one used by Musica Progresiva.org






...MY GOD!!!

Ouch
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Points: 67449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:05
I care some, so I guess I could care less.
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:10
Originally posted by Viajero Astral Viajero Astral wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


I like more the original serious one, not because the collage is bad, but because we have already a personality (this looks more like a fan club art), and also looks too similar to the idea of the  one used by Musica Progresiva.org






...MY GOD!!!

Ouch
Abel has produced collages for several Prog and Metal sites - that could be one of his.
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Jim Garten View Drop Down
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Points: 14693 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:10
I think there is a place for the artwork on the front page, but not as the site logo - just my opinion.

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:12
I think it is a significant improvement, and I support it as it is.
 
I have my usual concerns concering copyright. Providing these can be sorted out and the site is fully protected from any action against it, I'm all for it.
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Viajero Astral View Drop Down
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Points: 3118 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:15
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Viajero Astral Viajero Astral wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


I like more the original serious one, not because the collage is bad, but because we have already a personality (this looks more like a fan club art), and also looks too similar to the idea of the  one used by Musica Progresiva.org






...MY GOD!!!

Ouch
Abel has produced collages for several Prog and Metal sites - that could be one of his.


Nah, Abel has much better skills and thaste to do this.
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Gandalff View Drop Down
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Points: 4214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:19
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ the admins have no say over how M@X wants the site to look - it is his site, not ours.
I mean M@X is not Almighty.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:22
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I think it is a significant improvement, and I support it as it is.
 
I have my usual concerns concering copyright. Providing these can be sorted out and the site is fully protected from any action against it, I'm all for it.
It is down to "fair use" Bob, and fair use is a defense not a protection - you can only claim fair use while you are being sued, it won't protect you from being sued in the first place.
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Gandalff View Drop Down
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Points: 4214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:23
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I think it is a significant improvement, and I support it as it is.
 
I have my usual concerns concering copyright. Providing these can be sorted out and the site is fully protected from any action against it, I'm all for it.
So, I´m confused now. Iván just isn´t right at all?
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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Points: 14693 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:37
Originally posted by Gandalff Gandalff wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ the admins have no say over how M@X wants the site to look - it is his site, not ours.

I mean M@X is not Almighty.


Not Almighty, but he is the reason we're all here.

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 03:39
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I think it is a significant improvement, and I support it as it is.
 
I have my usual concerns concering copyright. Providing these can be sorted out and the site is fully protected from any action against it, I'm all for it.
It is down to "fair use" Bob, and fair use is a defense not a protection - you can only claim fair use while you are being sued, it won't protect you from being sued in the first place.
 
I think in the other thread he does say he's obtained some agreements and is seeking others.
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 04:24

That need to be clarified and M@X need to seek and then receive a written statement absolving him and our community from any blame whatsoever, Bob. 


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Points: 5536 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 05:14
yes is ok, PA needed a little colour because that purple was already for years on top. Still some improving can be made in the future.Wink
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Points: 2318 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 08:56
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


I like more the original serious one, not because the collage is bad, but because we have already a personality (this looks more like a fan club art), and also looks too similar to the idea of the  one used by Musica Progresiva.org




Which BTW is much more sober than ours.

But most important, I will talk as a lawyer:

All this drawings are protected by copyright laws, and even when some artists and bands are friendly, some are not.

Even when the author of the "ITCOTCK" has died, the band already protected this art cover with a copyright sign I verified) and King Crimson's lawyers are not famous for authorizing the use of their property.

If I'm not wrong, they already made Prog Archive delete all the samples of King Crimson music.

We are risking ourselves to a legal process, and that will end the site as we know it, because even if we win, the costs will be so high that M@X could be able to close the site.

So unless you have got the EXPRESS CONSENT of each and every artist and band, I would suggest to delete it.

Iván


 
I hear ya Ivan. I sent an emal to Max regaring this very important matter!. I don't mind creating a all original collage of none copyright material. I don't want to see this website to get  sue or anyone who is involve.. We are all here for the love off the music for God sake! not for nothing else!.
also that is a real horrible, reeeal bad photoshop collage you have  up here!LOL Man!
http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/
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darksideof View Drop Down
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Points: 2318 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 09:20
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Viajero Astral Viajero Astral wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


I like more the original serious one, not because the collage is bad, but because we have already a personality (this looks more like a fan club art), and also looks too similar to the idea of the  one used by Musica Progresiva.org






...MY GOD!!!

Ouch
Abel has produced collages for several Prog and Metal sites - that could be one of his.
no this collages wasn't made by me, but I have several people out there copying ( or metioning me as main influence )my collages look at these:
 
 
 
 
http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/
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darksideof View Drop Down
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Points: 2318 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 09:22
Originally posted by Viajero Astral Viajero Astral wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Viajero Astral Viajero Astral wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


I like more the original serious one, not because the collage is bad, but because we have already a personality (this looks more like a fan club art), and also looks too similar to the idea of the  one used by Musica Progresiva.org






...MY GOD!!!

Ouch
Abel has produced collages for several Prog and Metal sites - that could be one of his.


Nah, Abel has much better skills and thaste to do this.
Embarrassed thank kiddo!!!
http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 11:37
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

It is down to "fair use" Bob, and fair use is a defense not a protection - you can only claim fair use while you are being sued, it won't protect you from being sued in the first place.

That's true  Dean:

1.- Fair use (Fair Dealing in Canada is a doctrine that according o CANADIAN laws protects in the case of Criticism and Review (I believe this could be the case of Prog Archives)::

Quote
Copyright Act (R.S., 1985, c. C-42)

29.1 Fair dealing for the purpose of criticism or review does not infringe copyright if the following are mentioned:
(a) the source; and
(b) if given in the source, the name of the

(i) author, in the case of a work,

(ii) performer, in the case of a performer’s performance,

(iii) maker, in the case of a sound recording, or

(iv) broadcaster, in the case of a communication signal.

1997, c. 24, s. 18.


http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-42/page-3.html#anchorbo-ga:l_IV-gb:s_34

I believe Prog Archives' location is in Canada, so I post this laws, and also because USA laws are much more restrictive.

2.- So we should cite the source of each and every fragment of the collage (the album in which it appears) and the name of the author.

3.- As far as I know and in USA, Fair Use or Fair Dealing (In UK system countries) is a defense, 

Quote

Fair dealing is a doctrine of limitations and exceptions to copyright which is found in many of the common law jurisdictions of the Commonwealth of Nations..

Fair dealing is an enumerated set of possible defenses against an action for infringement of an exclusive right of copyright. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing

I know Wikipedia is not the most serious source, but living in Përú and rarely having to use Canadian laws here, my sources are limited

In other words, somebody sues you and in the trial you can yse this as a defense, even when this defense won't stop a subpoena and probably a trial.

Plus the judge may accept or not that some act is really a fair use.

Not trying to frighten anybody, but as lawyer, I'm forced to take the worst scenarios.

Iván




Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 14 2010 at 11:53
            
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2010 at 11:45
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

It is down to "fair use" Bob, and fair use is a defense not a protection - you can only claim fair use while you are being sued, it won't protect you from being sued in the first place.

That's true  Dean:

1.- Fair use (Fair Dealing in Canada is a doctrine that according o CANADIAN laws protects in the case of Criticism and Review (I believe this could be the case of Prog Archives)::

Quote
Copyright Act (R.S., 1985, c. C-42)

29.1 Fair dealing for the purpose of criticism or review does not infringe copyright if the following are mentioned:
(a) the source; and
(b) if given in the source, the name of the

(i) author, in the case of a work,

(ii) performer, in the case of a performer’s performance,

(iii) maker, in the case of a sound recording, or

(iv) broadcaster, in the case of a communication signal.

1997, c. 24, s. 18.


http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-42/page-3.html#anchorbo-ga:l_IV-gb:s_34

I believe Prog Archives' location is in Canada, so I post this laws, and also because USA laws are much more restrictive.

2.- So we should cite the source of each and every fragment of the collage (the album in which it appears) and the name of the author.

3.- As far as I know and in USA, Fair Use or Fair Dealing (In UK system countries) is a defense, 

Quote Fair dealing is an enumerated set of possible defenses against an action for infringement of an exclusive right of copyright. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing

I know Wikipedia is not the most serious source, but living in Përú and rarely having to use Canadian laws here, my sources are limited

In other words, somebody sues you and in the trial you can yse this as a defense, even when this defense won't stop a subpoena and probably a trial.

Plus the judge may accept or not that some act is really a fair use.

Not trying to frighten anybody, but as lawyer, I'm forced to take the worst scenarios.

Iván



That's just not fair. Tongue

Edited by Slartibartfast - October 14 2010 at 11:45
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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