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moshkito View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 20:52

Hi,

My apologies if this is long, but I have no idea how I can condense all this into one paragraph.

 
I think, that as time goes further up and my days less and less on this earth, that I might think a bit more about that, but you know what ... I'm more concerned with feeling healthy inside, and eating right, writing another film review, writing another article at progarchives, than I am about anything else.
 
I have read a lot on the subject and was a voracious reader of the Castaneda books, just like I was Crowley, Fortune, Mathers, Gurdgieff, Hesse, Buddha and all the mystics you could possibly imagine, that have ever been. While a lot of people do not care for any of these styles, in the end, Carlos had a very good analysis of the internal perception and from then on, it was about .. you either try it and do it, or you don't. And go bitch that you don't like him or his style! It all depends on the depth of your own internal constitution and desire to learn. Has absolutely nothing to do with anything else, and even a famous person we quote from the good book every day said it!
 
It is thought, in many corners of the world that death is just another stage. And I accept that. I also see the world in the same "psychic" mold that Robert Monroe had described ... a massive piece of rock with an atmosphere but with a collective "mind" that is easily 5 to 10 times bigger than the world itself, and I tend to see that a lot. And that "collective mind" is strong and sometimes bad, and might have a chance at preventing your further trip ... and many of us call this stuff "guilt" or even (heaven forbid!) religion!
 
I time trip a lot. I like to do meditations into the unknown and sometimes the "un-know-able" as Carlos calls it. The question is, for me, are these meaningful? ... and what is it from them that I want or don't want. The answer is - I don't know. But I can tell you that in those trips I see a lot more things that are not yet here on this earth in the arts, music and literature and sheer experience. What exactly that might be I can not tell you since I have no words for it, but I know how it felt and have tried to write some of these down.
 
One of the finest experiences I have ever had, was a death dream. I was at the time obsessed with dreams and their process and already I was not afraid to play with them ... I could not manipulate them per se, as Carlos was trying to do, which I think is a bit too egocentric for me ... how can you manipulate an energy around you that is not your own to have? portions of it maybe ... but even then ... but I could do some funny things with it. I could replay them movie portion and steer the results in different ways just like Jean-Luc Godard used to do ... and it cracked me up many times. It was not only fun, it was far out. But I'm not sure that many people can "mentally" enjoy a Godard and his "anti-film" concept, which started out making fun of American movies with their "preset" shots and film methods ... once you see that, you start recognize how mechanical you have become in watching movies ... and that is the reason why not many enjoy foreign films (in America), or can appreciate foreign music in the same type of style ... you are conditioned to something ... and that something is ruling your perception.
 
And someday, if you want to become a good writer and artist you have to notice that, and the first thing you will say is ... I wanna be free and not do that! ... so guess what "art" really is, after all? The distortion and the breaking of all the rules and precepts and concepts!
 
But the best part was yet to come. 
 
One day, in the screenplay class I had to come up with a scene as an assignment. I was already, then, very instinctive writer, but I did not have it set deep enough, or a steady source as yet, so it was hit and miss too much. So I decided I was going to bed early, and get up early and write something, since I like to write when the house is quiet and I can hear myself. So I fall asleep, and I start dreaming and I am driving down and hit this car on the door and I am hurt enough to die. And I wake up. And the first thing I told myself was ... you're not supposed to wake up at all, and just take the trip.
 
And the dream reset and I hit the door again and off I went. I cannot tell you where, how long, or how much, but I can tell you that it was the most peaceful sleep ever and the most enjoyable night I have ever had in bed. And when I woke up in the morning I wrote over 50 pages of what became my screenplay "To the chagrin of ... " which you can find in the Library of Congress.
 
When my father died, I had my cry a few days before the event. So on the Sunday when I was asked out of work to go see the worst horror movie of all time, I went back to work. I had already paid my tribute. And writen my poem! And on the day of the funeral with all those hundreds of dignitaries from the world over, I felt relief ... that body had "nothing" in it, and no feeling and I knew it. And on top of it, he was free of some of these people!
 
And the feeling didn't bother me, because I knew the other lively part was gone. Where it went? I'm not sure it is important or matters. What I think is important is that we handle ourselves so that we have a "happy ending", or really fast ending, so that we do not get to see what I saw, because it was ugly. Very ugly. And did not honor anything. And some people were there out of spite on top of it!
 
I have lived my life, by myself, inside of myself. I have already given all my work to the aethers and am not concerned wether any of it is ever published or not. The curse (not really a curse!, but a bet and a joke!) is that those that have denied me and did not take the time to see what this work was all about, are the ones that will regret not having seen it in time, to even say hello or have a game of tetris with! Or a quick WoW duel with! Or having shared someone's heart like they have never had the chance to do. Does it all really mean enough to them, that they would want this person with them? ... and I no longer fret if I don't get invited to the ball. My dance is in another world and place in the 24 1/2 century if you will!
 
All of my work, and this includes the writings on progressive music, poetry, all my film reviews, are all from the heart. And yes, there are times when a thought or idea or feeling that might not be too nice escapes and shows up, but in the end, it is totally honest and is not trying to circumvent the truth and the honor and the beauty of a life ... though not the happiest ... still ... has had the most visions, dreams and inner work, of anyone I know except a couple of writers I have had the good fortune of reading and learning from, and a few musicians whose music is above and beyond the space of "pop music" (something that is impossible to show/explain to many people here!), or pulp movies and novels about fantasies and cartoons. 
 
It all depends on how far you want to take yourself and your learning, doesn't it? In the end, "death" won't matter much at all ... you just go and all my records, books and every thing else will just sit there and rot until someone finds something good to do with it, or takes the money from Amazon and goes buy something else for their kids or pets!  A lot of the music still won't mean much to a lot of folks here, or otherwise.
 
Doesn't bother me. It's about the time, the place and everything around you ... and you either love it or get burnt by the sun of the revolution ... and go blind! It will be too late then to learn it all! But that is not my choice, or place in life to judge people on that. But the sadness, the anger and the lack of beauty ... will be so un-pleasant at that moment ... it's worse that death.
 
"To die, to be really dead, (pause), that would be glorious! That are far worse things awaiting men, than (pause) death!"
 
It's so true it's scary!
 
Stop worrying and live and love! And for the sake of the art ... appreciate the music for what it is ... not what it is supposed to be!  And one day we can enjoy a cup of coffee at the cafe in the sky .... where all the artists say hello to each other and get their magical suntan and moontans ... and we simply ...


Edited by moshkito - October 12 2010 at 21:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 20:57
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

 

Not to belittle that story, as I found it wholly interesting, it seems to me your neighbor has forgotten what life is about. I'm not saying the loss of a life partner (I don't believe in the 'soul mates' malarky, myself. No offense) wouldn't be a terrible blow to one's happiness, but when you rely that much on another human being for a meaning in life, you miss out on living life for yourself as well. That's my opinion, anyway.

Though it would be foolish of me to say I don't think companionship enhances our lives. Of course it does. I just think being happy on your own first is vital. Maybe one day when I truly feel content-as-hell with my life exactly as it is, like you said, I won't worry as much about how much time I have left. I guess I've just only recently come to realize how very real mortality is, and it gets me to thinking. 

Thanks for sharing that story about your neighbor. I feel badly for him, but I wish he would try to enjoy what life he has left like you know his wife would have wanted him to. 



First off, I agree about the soul mates thing.  I just meant true loves, but chose poorly cliched words.  I don't believe in "soul mates" any more than you do. 

Second, what you say is very true, but naturally this man is in a very different stage of life.  Yes, at your age, you should be living for yourself, investigating stuff, not getting too tied down, etc, that's all good and healthy.  Your mind and body are primed for these things as they should be.  But its quite different to be 80 years old and suddenly alone.  This man is in no position health-wise to be "out there" on the dating scene, looking to meet new people, etc.  Some people would be healthy enough to react to the death of a spouse in the manner you suggest, but not all.  Further, whether you believe it or not, if you spend 5 decades with someone, your happiness is naturally wrapped together with them, if you love them.  I agree with you a person should not place their happiness in the hands of another, but surely you see that when you spend that much time living together, your lives blur and like it or not, you just *are* connected to their well being. 

For old folks who have moved beyond that stage of being active enough and mentally primed enough to rengage socially, I agree with you, they should.  For guys like my neighbor, it is up to those around him to brings some happiness into his life, encourage him, help him, etc.  But his prospects are not good and sometime you just have to acknowledge that and let the person know you are there.  For some in their 80s and 90s, that's as good as it gets, and as good as they might want it to get. 

Well, regarding the whole "soul mates" issue my wife and I do sometimes finding each other thinking the same thoughts and then speaking them.  It's really spooky. 

I lived life alone when I was young and really enjoyed myself.  But there really is something to be said for having a partner in a relationship where you can support one another.  I can totally understand how this guy's loss would be a grievous wound.

Okay, I think people are taking what I said way wrong. 

I never said having someone to share your life with isn't a big deal, or wouldn't eventually become your primary reason in life. All I'm saying is that, even at and elderly age, I would hope I wouldn't cease to enjoy living as your neighbor seems to have done . . . all because my wife or girlfriend wasn't around anymore. I mean, my god, if that is all that matters to you in life, I don't care how much 'sense' it makes, you're missing out on so much more.

And I didn't mean that I felt he should go out looking for some strange to replace his wife. On the contrary, if he never had a romantic relationship again, he could still find plenty to live for elsewhere. 

Am I just not coming across well? Embarrassed


p.s. Being able to finish each-other's thoughts and sentences isn't due to some kind of magic. It's due to spending a lot of time together and/or having a lot in common already. 'Soul Mates' is still a concept I find absurd. (Just my opinion, of course Wink)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:10
I looked up the definition to be sure we were all on the same page:
Soul mate -
a person with whom one has a strong affinity.

I always understood it to be having a bit of a deeper connection with somebody.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:13
Hi,
 
The "Soul Mates" concept is not absurd and happens. However, only the people involved within it will ever be able to explain it, and wether they have a relationship or not is inconsequential.
 
It is a mute discussion, in general, to even conceive what we think should or should not be ... that "soul mates" share. I have 2 soul mates and they have been everything to my life, but they were not, and are not, someone that I can or should have a physical relationship with ... and with them it would be easy ... but is not what we choose to chase and share ... because we're interested in a lot more ... a lot more ... a lot more ... and one day you might see some art, and I was the person that helped her define it and bring it "home".
 
In the end, I believed in the love and the art. Many don't!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:18
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

I looked up the definition to be sure we were all on the same page:
Soul mate -
a person with whom one has a strong affinity.

I always understood it to be having a bit of a deeper connection with somebody.
 
It is deeper and sometimes not even defineable in the terms that a discussion like this tries to bring it off with.
 
I have liked the time with my "soul mates" and sometimes we don't even have to talk, but I can tell you that the artistic work and time together, can not even be magnified in gold or currency. The sheer beauty of it is worth every minute of it, and I have yet to look back a single second of that time! I don't think I know how, since I know it was the best ... and the best part of all? ... I knew it!
 
... ohhh, btw ... you learn quickly the difference between saying "I love you" and just throwing some words out! You can't measure that distance in the difference, btw!


Edited by moshkito - October 12 2010 at 21:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:24
I'd sooner die than have to plow through that senseless... wall of!! text...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:25
On the subject of soul mates:
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:37
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

 

Not to belittle that story, as I found it wholly interesting, it seems to me your neighbor has forgotten what life is about. I'm not saying the loss of a life partner (I don't believe in the 'soul mates' malarky, myself. No offense) wouldn't be a terrible blow to one's happiness, but when you rely that much on another human being for a meaning in life, you miss out on living life for yourself as well. That's my opinion, anyway.

Though it would be foolish of me to say I don't think companionship enhances our lives. Of course it does. I just think being happy on your own first is vital. Maybe one day when I truly feel content-as-hell with my life exactly as it is, like you said, I won't worry as much about how much time I have left. I guess I've just only recently come to realize how very real mortality is, and it gets me to thinking. 

Thanks for sharing that story about your neighbor. I feel badly for him, but I wish he would try to enjoy what life he has left like you know his wife would have wanted him to. 



First off, I agree about the soul mates thing.  I just meant true loves, but chose poorly cliched words.  I don't believe in "soul mates" any more than you do. 

Second, what you say is very true, but naturally this man is in a very different stage of life.  Yes, at your age, you should be living for yourself, investigating stuff, not getting too tied down, etc, that's all good and healthy.  Your mind and body are primed for these things as they should be.  But its quite different to be 80 years old and suddenly alone.  This man is in no position health-wise to be "out there" on the dating scene, looking to meet new people, etc.  Some people would be healthy enough to react to the death of a spouse in the manner you suggest, but not all.  Further, whether you believe it or not, if you spend 5 decades with someone, your happiness is naturally wrapped together with them, if you love them.  I agree with you a person should not place their happiness in the hands of another, but surely you see that when you spend that much time living together, your lives blur and like it or not, you just *are* connected to their well being. 

For old folks who have moved beyond that stage of being active enough and mentally primed enough to rengage socially, I agree with you, they should.  For guys like my neighbor, it is up to those around him to brings some happiness into his life, encourage him, help him, etc.  But his prospects are not good and sometime you just have to acknowledge that and let the person know you are there.  For some in their 80s and 90s, that's as good as it gets, and as good as they might want it to get. 

Well, regarding the whole "soul mates" issue my wife and I do sometimes finding each other thinking the same thoughts and then speaking them.  It's really spooky. 

I lived life alone when I was young and really enjoyed myself.  But there really is something to be said for having a partner in a relationship where you can support one another.  I can totally understand how this guy's loss would be a grievous wound.

Okay, I think people are taking what I said way wrong. 

I never said having someone to share your life with isn't a big deal, or wouldn't eventually become your primary reason in life. All I'm saying is that, even at and elderly age, I would hope I wouldn't cease to enjoy living as your neighbor seems to have done . . . all because my wife or girlfriend wasn't around anymore. I mean, my god, if that is all that matters to you in life, I don't care how much 'sense' it makes, you're missing out on so much more.

And I didn't mean that I felt he should go out looking for some strange to replace his wife. On the contrary, if he never had a romantic relationship again, he could still find plenty to live for elsewhere. 

Am I just not coming across well? Embarrassed    [No, you're fine Micah, I just think the bolded comment shows you minimize a little the importance of a 55 year relationship to a rather frail 81 year old.  For guys of that generation especially, yeah, the marriage is really first and foremost.  With that gone, and his health in bad shape, he doesn't give a f*ck about whatever else we think he's "missing out on."  He's travelled, had a career, friends, great meals, a little adventure in his youth, whatever else....and at 81, I'm just saying, what's important is family.  He only had her, none of that other sh*t matters.  While he's maybe not typical of all widowers, I do believe his feelings are not uncommon among that group. 

I totally understand its a very different view than you would hold in your 20s.   No offense was intended]





p.s. Being able to finish each-other's thoughts and sentences isn't due to some kind of magic. It's due to spending a lot of time together and/or having a lot in common already. 'Soul Mates' is still a concept I find absurd. (Just my opinion, of course Wink)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:42
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

 

Not to belittle that story, as I found it wholly interesting, it seems to me your neighbor has forgotten what life is about. I'm not saying the loss of a life partner (I don't believe in the 'soul mates' malarky, myself. No offense) wouldn't be a terrible blow to one's happiness, but when you rely that much on another human being for a meaning in life, you miss out on living life for yourself as well. That's my opinion, anyway.

Though it would be foolish of me to say I don't think companionship enhances our lives. Of course it does. I just think being happy on your own first is vital. Maybe one day when I truly feel content-as-hell with my life exactly as it is, like you said, I won't worry as much about how much time I have left. I guess I've just only recently come to realize how very real mortality is, and it gets me to thinking. 

Thanks for sharing that story about your neighbor. I feel badly for him, but I wish he would try to enjoy what life he has left like you know his wife would have wanted him to. 



First off, I agree about the soul mates thing.  I just meant true loves, but chose poorly cliched words.  I don't believe in "soul mates" any more than you do. 

Second, what you say is very true, but naturally this man is in a very different stage of life.  Yes, at your age, you should be living for yourself, investigating stuff, not getting too tied down, etc, that's all good and healthy.  Your mind and body are primed for these things as they should be.  But its quite different to be 80 years old and suddenly alone.  This man is in no position health-wise to be "out there" on the dating scene, looking to meet new people, etc.  Some people would be healthy enough to react to the death of a spouse in the manner you suggest, but not all.  Further, whether you believe it or not, if you spend 5 decades with someone, your happiness is naturally wrapped together with them, if you love them.  I agree with you a person should not place their happiness in the hands of another, but surely you see that when you spend that much time living together, your lives blur and like it or not, you just *are* connected to their well being. 

For old folks who have moved beyond that stage of being active enough and mentally primed enough to rengage socially, I agree with you, they should.  For guys like my neighbor, it is up to those around him to brings some happiness into his life, encourage him, help him, etc.  But his prospects are not good and sometime you just have to acknowledge that and let the person know you are there.  For some in their 80s and 90s, that's as good as it gets, and as good as they might want it to get. 


If my wife died today, I would be devastated, but would move on.  I have young children.

If my wife died in 50 years, I believe I would be ready to die.  I understand this even now at 27.

To think that my wife means as much to me now as she ever will...that's a pretty poor outlook for a marriage.  We are relatively young now, and if one of us died, the other would have a long time to cope.  We'd have friends to help us through.  We have children to comfort.  We have our parents even.  We also have diversions.  We have many things.

But when I am 80 (if, heh), and my wife dies at 81, and I am alone...nothing will console me. 

The earth will have cracked.  I would never care to repair it at 80.


Edited by Epignosis - October 12 2010 at 21:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:45
You probably put that much better than I did Robert.  Absolutely age and outlook matter.  If the neighbor lost his wife years ago, I'm sure it would be different.  But living this new reality for 3 years now, he sees what loneliness is, and he knows things aren't going to change for him.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:45
*sigh* 

I guess I'm just soulless, then. Unhappy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:49
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

*sigh* 

I guess I'm just soulless, then. Unhappy


Well you shouldn't feel bad over anything I wrote.  I was just trying to explain this guy and what I observe.  It matters not. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:57
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

*sigh* 

I guess I'm just soulless, then. Unhappy


Well you shouldn't feel bad over anything I wrote.  I was just trying to explain this guy and what I observe.  It matters not. 

Well, it matters a bit, I'd say. I don't wish to come across as some a****le without empathy or understanding for another's pain. Disapprove I simply don't see the logic in wrapping your emotions so much in another human being that you would end up in such a way. But I understand it on an emotional level. I don't see the two as the same thing.

I did in fact feel this way about someone once upon a time; it was horrible after we ended the relationship, and I couldn't imagine how much worse I would have felt had it ended as a result of something tragic. But after the whole thing was over, I felt like I had been under a spell of sorts. Love is a type of madness where emotion often gets in the way of logic. For that reason, I try to keep myself looking at things from a realistic, practical angle. I just worry that I'm coming off as some smart-ass who thinks he knows it all. That's certainly not how I feel. Embarrassed




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 22:25
I wrote a post to you Micah, but shook my head and got rid of it. 

You're young.  One day you'll be old, God willing, and you'll look back and say "What an fool I was then!"  But those "lessons" you will learn...no one will ever be able to teach them to you.  You just get to figure them out yourself.  That's because none of it is knowledge- it's wisdom.

No slight against you as you are now- as I said, you're still quite young.  For me it's a matter of experience

...like staying up all night as teenagers making out for six hours straight and feeling the impression of each others' lips on your own well into the next morning.

...like sitting in a hospital at 3AM not knowing if your only child will live or die.

...like being a hopeless drunk who, despite being totally undeserving, had a wife who lifted him out of the gutter.

...like holding your wife's hand and coaching her through the birth of your second child.

...like engaging in countless fights where you told each other "f**k you!" and the next night wound up in bed with "f**k me."

It's experience.  It can't be taught.  And it can't be helped.  You'll get your own.  It will be the best and worst thing ever.  Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 22:34
Micah, if you're putting that to me....no, I don't think you're an a****le, and yes, I do know you have empathy for others.Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 22:42
No offense, but I find your post quite insulting, Robert. You're only six years older than I am, and while you've certainly had more experience, it isn't like I've never been in an intimate, meaningful relationship with someone. I have. A few, actually. I don't have a family or a long-time partner, but that doesn't mean I am incapable of observing others and understanding why they feel the way they do about things. 

This was never about me not understanding; it's about me understanding, but not agreeing. Perhaps I chose my words poorly before, in which case that was my own fault. In that regard, however, I don't think age or experience have much to do with it. Perhaps someday I will meet someone who completely changes my mind about this, but right now I cannot pretend to agree with this mindset of my life being over just because someone I love is gone. 

Yes, I've been guilty of getting too emotionally attached to another, and I can clearly see where 50+ years of such madness would lead me to feel just as desperate as Finn's neighbor is. But which part of it would really be logical? The attitude itself, or the circumstances leading to it? I can clearly understand why someone would be so devastated they would no longer wish to live. But I simply don't think it's healthy or entirely sound thinking, regardless what age you are.

Anyway, I realize most people think I'm nuts on my opinions regarding love and relationships, but until another point of view makes more sense to me, all I can do is be honest about how I feel. I would like to think my friends could accept my point of view as just that, and not talk in a patronizing way about how I have much to learn. I'm well aware of that fact already, thank you. That has little, if anything, to do with differing opinions on a complex matter such as this. 

Just sayin'. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 22:47
p.s. I'm about to put on your album again in a few minutes. The what you're listening to thread got me in the mood for it! Cool
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 23:23
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

No offense, but I find your post quite insulting, Robert. You're only six years older than I am, and while you've certainly had more experience, it isn't like I've never been in an intimate, meaningful relationship with someone. I have. A few, actually. I don't have a family or a long-time partner, but that doesn't mean I am incapable of observing others and understanding why they feel the way they do about things. 

This was never about me not understanding; it's about me understanding, but not agreeing. Perhaps I chose my words poorly before, in which case that was my own fault. In that regard, however, I don't think age or experience have much to do with it. Perhaps someday I will meet someone who completely changes my mind about this, but right now I cannot pretend to agree with this mindset of my life being over just because someone I love is gone. 

Yes, I've been guilty of getting too emotionally attached to another, and I can clearly see where 50+ years of such madness would lead me to feel just as desperate as Finn's neighbor is. But which part of it would really be logical? The attitude itself, or the circumstances leading to it? I can clearly understand why someone would be so devastated they would no longer wish to live. But I simply don't think it's healthy or entirely sound thinking, regardless what age you are.

Anyway, I realize most people think I'm nuts on my opinions regarding love and relationships, but until another point of view makes more sense to me, all I can do is be honest about how I feel. I would like to think my friends could accept my point of view as just that, and not talk in a patronizing way about how I have much to learn. I'm well aware of that fact already, thank you. That has little, if anything, to do with differing opinions on a complex matter such as this. 

Just sayin'. Wink


Of course you find it insulting.  You're young. 

You completely ignored the part that implied that when I was younger, I was no different.

"it isn't like I've never been in an intimate, meaningful relationship with someone. I have. A few, actually. "

That statement really equals a confession of naivete for me. 


"Perhaps someday I will meet someone who completely changes my mind about this, but right now I cannot pretend to agree with this mindset of my life being over just because someone I love is gone. "

You are young and unwed.  Of course you feel this way!  And did you read anything I said?  I said if my wife died today, that's one thing (and read how much we've experienced together!), but if she died 50 years from now, that's quite another.  But your attempt to apply "logic" to such a situation only shows your youthful arrogance.  Logic means nothing at that stage- because your world is gone.  Grief rhymes with thief for a reason- it can steal your world.

And as far as our age differences go, my friend, when I said "I do," you were 13.  When I met my wife, you were 10.  When I got involved in my first relationship ever, you were 5.  That's right- I was 11 and was with a girl for almost 5 years.  I thought I would be with her forever.  We said the right things and felt the right feelings.  Yet it was a sandcastle relationship and it failed and I felt miserable and she threatened to murder herself.  Yet we're all still here and we all know better.

By the way, if you think I'm going to "accept your point of view" just because it's your point of view and any of that Dr. Phillish bullsh*t...well, you know me better than that.  Your talk of relationships is juvenile and immature.  I know because I used to think that way myself.  You will learn better.  And if you don't, you will be one of the loneliest souls on the planet.

This isn't meant to insult you.  This is meant to just remind you that you will learn so much more tomorrow. 

And so will I- which is precisely why today I might be able to move on if my wife died, but tomorrow could be a completely different story.

PS- If I were you, I'd be more interested to know what makes relationships stay strong for so long rather than wondering how a person could feel his life is over when his wife's is.  If you figure out the first part, you'll get the last.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 23:42
Wasn't there a movie about this discussion?
Rob, clearly you would adopt a fat boy scout and a talking dog after going on an adventure in a jungle, and then be happy again.
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Grief rhymes with thief for a reason- it can steal your world.
Yes, logic certainly does not apply to this statement. :P
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2010 at 23:44
So, just because I happen to feel differently about something, you think that's juvenile and immature? I never realized how overly proud of yourself you must be in order to think you know what's going on inside my head, or to assume that you know something I do not on the sheer grounds that you experienced things in life a little sooner than I. What's worse is how you predict I will be one of the 'loneliest souls on the planet' if I don't subscribe to your outlook on what love is. 

For the record, I don't think I could ever bring myself to speak in such a pandering way to someone I genuinely considered a friend or had respect for. Sure, I'm brutally honest at times, but to me there is a fine line between brutal honesty and pompous lecturing. At least now I know what you really think about me. 

Now, you'll simply laugh this off in your response and lecture me some more, no doubt; pointing out how I didn't address what you were really talking about, etc. etc. How about I just save you the effort right now, aye? I don't give a sh*t about how you think I should live my life. What I do give a sh*t about, however, is whether or not you respect me or consider me a friend. The more I talk to you, however, the more I wonder about that. 

This was supposed to be a discussion about opinions, not a place for you to get all superior on me and state how much smarter you think you are.


Edited by JLocke - October 13 2010 at 00:03
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