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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2010 at 17:12
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ I find it more interesting that apparently many Catholics think that the transsubstantiation is meant symbolically. LOL
 
Yes it's bad, but remember, this test was done in USA and if you check the result analysis, the Catholics that scored low are latino Catholics, something that doesn't surprise me, bexcause abou 40% (according to numbers I posted before) are functionally illiterate, so they will hatdly read the Bible if they can't read a newspaper.
 
The White Catholics didn't do it that bad.
 
Question
1. Which Bible figure is most closely associated with leading the exodus from Egypt?  
  • Job
  • Elijah
  • Moses
  • Abraham
correct Answer 72 80 68 73 71 48 92 90 87 67    
2. What was Mother Teresa's religion?  
  • Catholic
  • Jewish
  • Buddhist
  • Mormon
  • Hindu
correct Answer 82 86 83 66 88 83 89 84 89 77    
3. Which of the following is NOT one of the Ten Commandments?  
  • Do not commit adultery
  • Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
  • Do not steal
  • Keep the Sabbath holy
correct Answer 55 67 49 49 63 45 81 62 62 46    
4. When does the Jewish Sabbath begin?  
  • Friday
  • Saturday
  • Sunday
correct Answer 45 47 41 43 48 33 55 94 56 45    
5. Is Ramadan…?  
  • The Hindu festival of lights
  • A Jewish day of atonement
  • The Islamic holy month
correct Answer 52 51 53 39 55 36 51 90 75 52    
6. Which of the following best describes the Catholic teaching about the bread and wine used for Communion?  
  • The bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
  • The bread and wine are symbols of the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
correct Answer 40 40 36 25 59 47 40 33 41 30    
7. In which religion are Vishnu and Shiva central figures?  
  • Islam
  • Hinduism
  • Taoism
correct Answer 38 31 40 23 34 23 48 62 72 48    
8. Which Bible figure is most closely associated with remaining obedient to God despite suffering?  
  • Job
  • Elijah
  • Moses
  • Abraham
correct Answer 39 58 34 51 26 19 70 47 42 27    
9. What was Joseph Smith's religion?  
  • Catholic
  • Jewish
  • Buddhist
  • Mormon
  • Hindu
correct Answer 51 64 55 25 53 25 93 68 71 45    
10. According to rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court, is a public school teacher permitted to lead a class in prayer, or not?  
  • Yes, permitted
  • No, not permitted
correct Answer 89 93 90 83 91 83 89 91 95 87    
11. According to rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court, is a public school teacher permitted to read from the Bible as an example of literature, or not?  
  • Yes, permitted
  • No, not permitted
correct Answer 23 26 21 16 18 16 25 42 40 25    
12. What religion do most people in Pakistan consider themselves?  
  • Buddhist
  • Hindu
  • Muslim
  • Christian
correct Answer 68 69 63 61 68 55 75 84 89 72    
13. What was the name of the person whose writings and actions inspired the Protestant Reformation?  
  • Martin Luther
  • Thomas Aquinas
  • John Wesley
correct Answer 46 52 46 40 47 34 61 70 68 37    
14. Which of these religions aims at nirvana, the state of being free from suffering?  
  • Islam
  • Buddhism
  • Hinduism
correct Answer 36 29 36 21 39 27 37 49 62 46    
15. Which one of these preachers participated in the period of religious activity known as the First Great Awakening?  
  • Jonathan Edwards
  • Charles Finney
  • Billy Graham
correct Answer 11 15 10 10 7 10 10 12 8 10    
 
 
 
 
If you see, neither white or black Protestants have high scores in knowing who Martin Luther is.
 
Plus, USA Catholic priests have some ideas that break the dogmas from the Vativcan, in one Church I went to mass in Birmingham when I was living there, they prayed "In the name of the father and the mother, the Son and the Holy Spirit", something no Catholic outside USA will accept, because we don't care about  politically correct.
 
Another reason is that this USA Catholics grow surrounded by Protestants, probably some went to Protestant schools when religion was allowed, so some of their beliefs are mixed,
 
Not an excuse, but USA is a different scenario than most of the world, you make this same test in Latin America or Europe and I'm sure the results wioll be different
 
Iván
 
 
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 29 2010 at 17:20
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2010 at 17:18
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Other than that, the results of the poll don;'t surprise me at all and I don't think the relative scores reflects badly on theists (wrt to atheists) - as long as they know something about their own faith it's not important that they know about everyone else's.

I don't agree with this. If you're a believer in something that comes under scrutiny, I would expect it to be your duty to know enough about other schools of thought in order to properly debate your critics. Whether it be members of another religion, the irreligious, or the unreligious. The fact that the results showed very limited knowledge on the part of the faithful regarding their OWN religion, as well as others . . . well, that should show you right there why nobody can 100% agree with a fellow follower of the same religion. Too much is left to interpretation and too much is simply not talked about. 
No, I think you are being a little unfair. On the religious questions on their own religion the full survey results showed that they scored between 60 and 80% - even though for we may consider this to be pretty poor by "our standards" and we would expect people to know between 80 and 100% about their own subject - that is a fairly typical score statistically. These theists were not people who studied religion, or attend church regularly, or practised a religion or even have studied the scriptures, they were just people who would tick the appropriate religion box on a census form and call themselves catholic or presbyterian etc.. That they score low on other religions and general knowledge is not a reflection on their religion but on the education system.
 
That atheists consistently scored highest in all categories and on most individual questions is not surprising either - they are not smarter than theists, they have simply looked at each religion a little closer than most before deciding it was not for them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2010 at 18:09
Being good at remembering trivia doesn't make one intelligent.  I'm fairly good at trivia as long as it isn't sports , which may explain a bit about me, what exactly I don't know.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2010 at 01:39
Originally posted by Iván Iván wrote:


Yes it's bad, but remember, this test was done in USA and if you check the result analysis, the Catholics that scored low are latino Catholics, something that doesn't surprise me, bexcause abou 40% (according to numbers I posted before) are functionally illiterate, so they will hatdly read the Bible if they can't read a newspaper.
 
The White Catholics didn't do it that bad.


They did bad on the question about their own faith - only 59% knew that their religion demands them to believe that what they're eating and drinking during communion is the actual flesh and blood of their savior. That's what I found curious.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2010 at 16:39
Just an update- I posted here a while ago about opposing a Christianity group being run at the school as we are not a religious school and no alternative religious groups were being offered. Management has now agreed and the group has been discontinued. The teacher running it is upset but doesn't seem to be holding a grudge.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2010 at 16:45
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

Just an update- I posted here a while ago about opposing a Christianity group being run at the school as we are not a religious school and no alternative religious groups were being offered. Management has now agreed and the group has been discontinued. The teacher running it is upset but doesn't seem to be holding a grudge.


Good old Kiwi secularism eh?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2010 at 17:01
It was just a bad move to have a Christian club though. We have more students that identify as Muslim and Buddhist than Christian and they're like "Where's the muslim/buddhism group? You're just promoting Christianity!" which was quite a bad look. The teacher behind the Christian group said to me at one point "Well why don't you run the Muslim group?" and I said "I'm not Muslim, don't be silly." And she said "Well if you're not prepared to run it yourself, don't moan that there isn't one. Just because there's no staff member willing to run a Muslim group doesn't mean I can't run a Christian group" and I, and management, said "Actually it does. If there's only a Christian group, with no alternative offered, it does look like the school endorses it and that's not the case."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2010 at 17:06
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

It was just a bad move to have a Christian club though. We have more students that identify as Muslim and Buddhist than Christian and they're like "Where's the muslim/buddhism group? You're just promoting Christianity!" which was quite a bad look. The teacher behind the Christian group said to me at one point "Well why don't you run the Muslim group?" and I said "I'm not Muslim, don't be silly." And she said "Well if you're not prepared to run it yourself, don't moan that there isn't one. Just because there's no staff member willing to run a Muslim group doesn't mean I can't run a Christian group" and I, and management, said "Actually it does. If there's only a Christian group, with no alternative offered, it does look like the school endorses it and that's not the case."


Wow, some people are quite abraisive.

My old High School had a similar issue, we used to have a Prayer at the assembly in the mornings before classes started (or maybe anround mid-morning), and a few people seemed to get cut up over it. It wasn't a big deal because there was no enforcement of participation - but then again it was supposed to be a State run secular school. As far as I am aware, most kids (this was a single-sex boys school too) used to just ignore it or take the piss.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2010 at 19:14
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 05:06
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

It was just a bad move to have a Christian club though. We have more students that identify as Muslim and Buddhist than Christian and they're like "Where's the muslim/buddhism group? You're just promoting Christianity!" which was quite a bad look. The teacher behind the Christian group said to me at one point "Well why don't you run the Muslim group?" and I said "I'm not Muslim, don't be silly." And she said "Well if you're not prepared to run it yourself, don't moan that there isn't one. Just because there's no staff member willing to run a Muslim group doesn't mean I can't run a Christian group" and I, and management, said "Actually it does. If there's only a Christian group, with no alternative offered, it does look like the school endorses it and that's not the case."
Why couldn't you guys just ask some of the muslim or buddhist kids to start a group if the Christian group offended them? I mean this really smacks of total paranoia based on political correctness issues. Sure I do not know all the facts but at least the Christian teacher was being proactive, thank God she was not wearing a burqaShocked
 
Sounds like everyone is hunky dory then.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 05:38
^ I would say they should either have religious groups for every religion or none at all. Of course I like the latter much better, plus the other choice is next to impossible to implement. What's clearly inappropriate to me is to have the staff organize a group for one religion and then leave it to the kids to organize their own groups.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 08:22
^ Yup, makes perfect sense to me.  Penalize the Christian kids because the non-Christian faculty are lazy.
As long as the school allows the other religions for form clubs, the fact that they were too lazy to do so should not be an issue.  All things are not, never have been and never will be equal.

Or, while we're at it, let's take it a step further and make sure all the kid's families have exactly the same income transportation, housing, etc..  After all it would only be fair for ALL things to be exactly the same for all the students.


Edited by Trademark - October 01 2010 at 08:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 08:30
Originally posted by Trademark Trademark wrote:

^ Yup, makes perfect sense to me.  Penalize the Christian kids because the non-Christian faculty are lazy.
How are the Christian kids being penalised? They still have their faith and their church - a school club isn't single denominational so I don't see any actual benefit in organising discussion, prayer or study outside the confines of their own church groups, especially since what makes those individual churches seperate as a "denomination" are their differences, not their commonality.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 08:37
They are being penalized because the school (apparently) at the time allowed the formation of the club as a matter of policy, then changed their minds because the non-christian teachers were too lazy to form their own clubs and instead lobbied to remove the Christian club as a final solution.

Let's take the "everything  must be non-denominational" PC stance one step further:

I am a basketball player and I decide to join the tennis club because there is no basketball club.  I won't play tennis and I want them to play basketball instead.  To appease all the school decides we must have a non-denominational "sports" club where no one plays any sports in order to avoid excluding any members.  

Again, my edit from above:  As long as the school allows the other religions for form clubs, the fact that they were too lazy to do so should not be an issue.


Edited by Trademark - October 01 2010 at 08:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 09:00
Originally posted by Trademark Trademark wrote:

Let's take the "everything  must be non-denominational" PC stance one step further:

I am a basketball player and I decide to join the tennis club because there is no basketball club.  I won't play tennis and I want them to play basketball instead.  To appease all the school decides we must have a non-denominational "sports" club where no one plays any sports in order to avoid excluding any members.  

Again, my edit from above:  As long as the school allows the other religions for form clubs, the fact that they were too lazy to do so should not be an issue.
 
I think you've taken the analogy one step beyond nondenominational (or interdenominational) - tennis and basketball are different sports not denominations of the same sport - basketball and netball are denominations of "putting a ball through a hoop" sports and lawn tennis, table tennis, badmington, squash and real tennis are denominations of racquet sports. A school christian club would be interdenominational since it would (have to be) open to all denominations of christians (catholic, protestant, lutherian, methodist, baptist, anabaptist, mormon, etc.).
 
An interdenominational "putting a ball through a hoop" club would have to exclude dribbling as part of the game (since it is not a skill that netball players practice) and would dispense with fixed "positions" (as it is not something that basketball players practice) - so the resultant game is a compromise that is neither one nor the other.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 09:11
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ I would say they should either have religious groups for every religion or none at all. Of course I like the latter much better, plus the other choice is next to impossible to implement. What's clearly inappropriate to me is to have the staff organize a group for one religion and then leave it to the kids to organize their own groups.
 
Then if there's no Cricket and Lacrosse  teams,,,The Schools should not have Baseball, Footbal or American Football team, yes I know it sounds stupid, but IMO is as stupid as forcing all religion groups or none
 
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Of course I like the latter much better, plus the other choice is next to impossible to implement. What's clearly inappropriate to me is to have the staff organize a group for one religion and then leave it to the kids to organize their own groups.
 
Good play MIke, use the plurality as an excuse to limit their constitutional right to religious belief or worship, all the regions have the same chance, if they don't take it, nobody can force them, but in no way their lazyness should be an excuse to diminish the rights of other religions.
 
What happens if there's one Buddhist boy and a couple of Jewish students? Shoud the existence of a Buddhism and Jewish group must be mandatory for several hundred or even thousand Christian boys hav a a group?
 
Sounds absurs, as a excuse for those who are against religion to limit the Constitutional tight to freedom of religion and worship.
 
Iván
 
Sorry Trademark, just read you used the sports analogy.
 
 
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 01 2010 at 09:13
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 09:12
Originally posted by Trademark Trademark wrote:

^ Yup, makes perfect sense to me.  Penalize the Christian kids because the non-Christian faculty are lazy.
As long as the school allows the other religions for form clubs, the fact that they were too lazy to do so should not be an issue.  All things are not, never have been and never will be equal.

Or, while we're at it, let's take it a step further and make sure all the kid's families have exactly the same income transportation, housing, etc..  After all it would only be fair for ALL things to be exactly the same for all the students.
Okay, taking into account your edits... (I can't read your edits before you make them - I comment on what I see when you originally post them)
 
It's not a question of laziness if there are no jewish, muslim, buddhist, hindu or wiccan teachers available to organise and run such clubs but there are jewish, muslim, buddhist, hindu or wiccan kids in the school who would attend if there were. The system is not equal because the teaching staff do not follow the same religion profile as the students. Nothing to do with laziness.
 
In terms of "equalising" kids within the school environment, that's what school uniforms were all about - like them or hate them, they were supposed to make everyone the same so class distinction and social circumstances were not a visible differenitiation amongh the students.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 09:19
Why can't you all join an all embracing religion club? I think it would be great if all christians, muslims, jews, hindus, buddhists and wiccans could put aside their petty differences and embrace their common belief as one happy bunch.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 09:20
I was thinking more of the non-Christian clubs and I thought I made that clear.  Islam, Hinduism taoism, etc. are not denominations that would be expected of a Christian club.

As far as including all Christian denominations, I would tend towards agreement, but I don't think that is what the ever moderate voice of textbook was driving at.  His point, as I understand it, was that since there were no clubs for NON-Christian students due to faculty laziness or apathy, that the one religious club that did form (the Christian one) must be disbanded  out of "fairness" to the others.  If I understand his point correctly, my basketball/tennis analogy works.  You might not see any reason for the club to exist for the reasons you gave but, as I understand it, the school allowed it, then changed its mind when no other religions formed similar clubs.

To be clear, what I said was that if all religions were allowed to form clubs and some chose not to (for any reason) the disbanding of the one that did form is not done in fairness, but rather as a form of penalization.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 09:25
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Why can't you all join an all embracing religion club? I think it would be great if all christians, muslims, jews, hindus, buddhists and wiccans could put aside their petty differences and embrace their common belief as one happy bunch.

I agree this would be a cool club.  I'd join.  I was responding more specifically to the situation textbook was talking about.  


Edited by Trademark - October 01 2010 at 09:27
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