Do you support universal healthcare?

The T wrote: Now that we're talking about obesity then Rob, (and unrelated to the poverty relationship), why do you think the US has the biggest (and by FAR) rate of obesity in the world?

Hmm...do you even look things up before you post by the way?  Where is the data that says the US has the biggest (and by "FAR") rate of obesity in the world?

According to Forbes, the USA is #9.

Rank	Country	%
1.	Nauru	94.5
2.	Micronesia, Federated States of	91.1
3.	Cook Islands	90.9
4.	Tonga	90.8
5.	Niue	81.7
6.	Samoa	80.4
7.	Palau	78.4
8.	Kuwait	74.2
9.	United States	74.1
10.	Kiribati	73.6
11.	Dominica	71.0
12.	Barbados	69.7
13.	Argentina	69.4
14.	Egypt	69.4
15.	Malta	68.7
16.	Greece	68.5
17.	New Zealand	68.4
18.	United Arab Emirates	68.3
19.	Mexico	68.1
20.	Trinidad and Tobago	67.9
21.	Australia	67.4
22.	Belarus	66.8
23.	Chile	65.3
24.	Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of)	65.2
25.	Seychelles	64.6
26.	Bahrain	64.1
27.	Andorra	63.8
28.	United Kingdom	63.8
29.	Saudi Arabia	63.5
30.	Monaco	62.4
31.	Bolivia	62.2
32.	San Marino	62.1
33.	Guatemala	61.2
34.	Mongolia	61.2
35.	Canada	61.1
36.	Qatar	61.0
37.	Uruguay	60.9
38.	Jordan	60.5
39.	Bahamas	60.4
40.	Iceland	60.4
41.	Nicaragua	60.4
42.	Cuba	60.1
43.	Germany	60.1
44.	Brunei Darussalam	59.8
45.	Slovenia	59.8
46.	Peru	59.6
47.	Vanuatu	59.6
48.	Finland	58.7
49.	Jamaica	57.4

I lol'd that #3 is "Cook Islands."

thellama73 wrote: Negoba wrote: I'll go where people (not here, just in general) seem to want to avoid...culture and intelligence.   Our values about hard work and reward are cultural ideas that were taught to us...they're not absolute truths. Furthermore, those of us gifted with a certain degree of intelligence are able to pick and choose somewhat, sticking with the parts of our upbringing that work for us and discarding some parts that we don't like or aren't working.   If you're born poor and slow third generation and work isn't part of your family's culture, what honest chance is there for you to break out? There are examples, but most of those are at the head of the intelligence curve within their own culture groups.   Add in mental illness (also more common in lower SES groups) and this whole "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" crap is revealed for the fantasy it is.   I'm not excusing anybody, or blaming anybody.     If work isn't part of your culture, you'd better change your attitude to your culture if you want to be successful in this country. Of course, if you don't want to work, that's perfectly fine with me, just don't complain when you don't have very much money.

No one is saying that it's easy to go from being poor to being rich. Of course it isn't But it is possible. And it's not  matter of working harder alone, but also working smarter. Finding a niche in the market that needs filling. Plenty of people have accomplished this, but I agree that it's very difficult. The general philosophy of America is that those who overcome this difficulty should be rewarded for it, whereas those who do not have that choice. Even the poorest Americans are not starving to death. If they want more, opportunities exist.

Epignosis wrote: The T wrote: This "go work and you'll not be poor, lazy bum" mentality might have some truth behind it but it's horribly generalizing and unfair. Just like the "homeless are bums" idea of people who seem to ignore that most homeless are mentally ill people affected by the desinstitutionalization that was carried out in previous decades. Oh yes, it's so easy always to blame those in the weaker positions for their problems.  When you're born in poverty, with poor and uneducated parents, chances are it'll be very difficult to get out of it since the vicious circle is in effect... As Negoba as saying, when you're born in one of this "lottery-ticket buying, mcdonalds eating" families, chances are THAT IS WHAT YOU WILL LEARN TO DO, and unless you have some good education or someone to guide you when you're young, leaving the poor ranks will be difficult.  Vicious cycle or not, it isn't the government's place to intervene.

Negoba wrote: thellama73 wrote: Negoba wrote: I'll go where people (not here, just in general) seem to want to avoid...culture and intelligence.   Our values about hard work and reward are cultural ideas that were taught to us...they're not absolute truths. Furthermore, those of us gifted with a certain degree of intelligence are able to pick and choose somewhat, sticking with the parts of our upbringing that work for us and discarding some parts that we don't like or aren't working.   If you're born poor and slow third generation and work isn't part of your family's culture, what honest chance is there for you to break out? There are examples, but most of those are at the head of the intelligence curve within their own culture groups.   Add in mental illness (also more common in lower SES groups) and this whole "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" crap is revealed for the fantasy it is.   I'm not excusing anybody, or blaming anybody.     If work isn't part of your culture, you'd better change your attitude to your culture if you want to be successful in this country. Of course, if you don't want to work, that's perfectly fine with me, just don't complain when you don't have very much money.   How many people reject their cultures of origin? How many people of below average intelligence reject their cultures of origin? How many people of below average intelligence and minimal financial means break out?   If the choice is break out or starve, things would be different. But we'd have to accept alot more people dying of starvation, and a helluva lot more crime. And that's part of the libertarian system, people have to be able to truly fail. No where near the majority of people are ready for that. Most would argue that part of having a civilized society is so that starvation and murder to eat don't have to happen.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. We all know it is difficult to break away from your upbringing. So what? Why is that my fault?

The T wrote: Have you noticed how we libertarians and liberals have hijacked the entire "topics not related to music" forums?

And even some of the music forums as well.

The T wrote: Have you noticed how we libertarians and liberals have hijacked the entire "topics not related to music" forums?

The T wrote: I should've added "in the industrialized world" and then it would be absolutely true. The US kicks the hell out of all Europe and prosperous countries in obesity...

Doesn't that run counter to your notion that somehow being poor makes you obese?

You keep making claims (that you never back up) and they seemingly contradict each other.

Negoba wrote: thellama73 wrote: No one is saying that it's easy to go from being poor to being rich. Of course it isn't But it is possible. And it's not  matter of working harder alone, but also working smarter. Finding a niche in the market that needs filling. Plenty of people have accomplished this, but I agree that it's very difficult. The general philosophy of America is that those who overcome this difficulty should be rewarded for it, whereas those who do not have that choice. Even the poorest Americans are not starving to death. If they want more, opportunities exist.   Why are they not starving?   The state stealing from the rest of us with money and giving out food stamps.

The T wrote: Now you also want to take public education away from them... What chances do they have now to ever learn??

OMG without government education, how will anybody learn anything?