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thellama73 
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
 Posted: September 23 2010 at 13:11 |
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Also, he's not poor. He still has his yachts and private jets, just like the poor guy still has his satellite TV. He could sell them and pay his doctor pills. He just doesn't have any cash or checking accounts.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 13:41 |
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Drinking heavily and buying lottery tickets because you're poor/depressed is stupid and I'm not going to apologize for thinking that. Of course, stupid monetary choices are not unique to the poor (for example, going to law school), but they live on a much thinner margin so their poor choices are more destructive. There was this wonderful segment on Food, Inc. that tried to make me feel sorry for some Hispanic family who claimed they were too poor to eat anything besides fast food. But that's ridiculous, I don't care what the margins on McDonald's are like, making something yourself is always cheaper, they were just being irresponsible.
This whole discussion is irrelevant, poor people don't really have satellite TV, I'm pretty sure they don't remove the dishes if you discontinue the service or if the previous owner had it, since whoever started the subscription already paid for it. |
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 13:47 |
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Good points, Henry. I just think the notion that you shouldn't have to sacrifice any luxury spending to pay for your doctor visits is ridiculous. |
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The T
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:01 |
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I'm pretty sure he's paid a lot of taxes, him being so rich. It's not even that unfair for him not to have access to public healthcare.
Anyway, who would decide? The death panels...
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:03 |
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Have you ever been to a supermarket? Making yourself a HEALTHY meal is not always less expensive than buying crap... If not, check statistics. The poorest people are also the most obese. Here in the US, unlike in countries like mine, buying a Mc combo is less expensive than buying produce....
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:05 |
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I don't follow your logic here. He's paid the most into the health care "pool" so he should get the least treatment from it? |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:09 |
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I go to a supermarket a couple of times a week - I can make a very healthy meal for my family for far less than it would cost to go to McDonalds.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32524 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:11 |
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Nonsense. Let's say it's $4 per person for a family of 5 to eat at McDonald's. That's $20 for one meal. I guarantee you I could take $40 and buy this family enough groceries to last them a week if they ate no more than 3 meals a day. I'm talking rice, beans, cabbage, Cream of Wheat, chicken leg quarters, pasta, spaghetti sauce, potatoes, etc. This is cheaper and better for you than fast food and will feed your family much, much longer. |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32524 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:20 |
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Oh, and about how you determine the significance of data... Poor people also spend about 9% of their income on lottery tickets. Meaning- assuming it's true that the poorest people are the most obese- you are assuming poor people make perfect choices about their health but just can't afford to follow through on these choices, and I'm here to tell that assumption is complete baloney (which is also pretty cheap, by the way). |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:21 |
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I was in wal-mart once and they had big packages of macaroni and cheese for 19 cents each. I couldn't believe it. Now I know that mac and cheese is not the healthiest meal in the world, but I bet it's healthier than McDonald's and MUCH cheaper.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32524 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:24 |
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Wal-Mart?  You know poor people shouldn't shop at Wal-Mart! Wal-Mart exploits unskilled poor people by giving them jobs and low prices on life's necessities!  |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:35 |
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Don't worry, I didn't buy anything.  |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:37 |
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Macaroni and Cheese is as garbage as mc donalds... Just as garbage. Actually, Mc Donalds may be even better. At least it has some kind of meat... Why is that poor people are more obese then? It would be because of poor choices I assume. Just like buying lottery tickets. Does this mean that, in the US, poor people are poor because they deserve it? ALWAYS? Now that we're talking about obesity then Rob, (and unrelated to the poverty relationship), why do you think the US has the biggest (and by FAR) rate of obesity in the world? |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:40 |
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Obviously not always. People have runs of bad luck and hit on hard times, no question. But you have to concede that there is some correlation between being smart and driven with being successful. There are smart, driven poor people and there are stupid, lazy rich people, but on average smart, driven people will be more successful. |
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008 Location: Big Muddy Status: Offline Points: 5208 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:42 |
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I'll go where people (not here, just in general) seem to want to avoid...culture and intelligence.
Our values about hard work and reward are cultural ideas that were taught to us...they're not absolute truths. Furthermore, those of us gifted with a certain degree of intelligence are able to pick and choose somewhat, sticking with the parts of our upbringing that work for us and discarding some parts that we don't like or aren't working.
If you're born poor and slow third generation and work isn't part of your family's culture, what honest chance is there for you to break out? There are examples, but most of those are at the head of the intelligence curve within their own culture groups.
Add in mental illness (also more common in lower SES groups) and this whole "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" crap is revealed for the fantasy it is.
I'm not excusing anybody, or blaming anybody.
Edited by Negoba - September 23 2010 at 14:42 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:43 |
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I actually agree on that. Just like with obesity... previous health problems notwithstanding, obese people are there because they've made poorer choices, therefore they're more stupid. Therefore the US is one of the countries with the most stupid people in the world. Therefore there is need for a government to provide for them Impeccable.   |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:45 |
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If work isn't part of your culture, you'd better change your attitude to your culture if you want to be successful in this country. Of course, if you don't want to work, that's perfectly fine with me, just don't complain when you don't have very much money. |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32524 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:48 |
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Well let's see... I just listed almost a dozen cheap foods (and can list a dozen more off the top of my head) that are not unhealthy. No one is forced to buy fast food. That's their choice. It's a poor choice. Also, exercise is free. You don't have to have a gym membership to run outside. Taxes paid for those sidewalks, remember? I wasn't making any causal correlation between being poor and being fat. You were. You tell me how being poor makes people fat. Aside from the absurd notion that poor people are forced to eat fast food because it's cheaper. I've already debunked that.
Because we like to eat, T. A lot. And we're lazy. Not that hard to figure out. |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:48 |
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Ah, logic. 1. Your first premise discounts the possibility of being stupid in other ways. French people are not obese, but they smoke a lot more, so in that regard they are stupider. 2. You second conclusion doesn't follow at all. If government provides for them, how will they or their children ever learn? Also it ignores the injustice of income redistribution and the existence of private charity. |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: September 23 2010 at 14:49 |
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This "go work and you'll not be poor, lazy bum" mentality might have some truth behind it but it's horribly generalizing and unfair. Just like the "homeless are bums" idea of people who seem to ignore that most homeless are mentally ill people affected by the desinstitutionalization that was carried out in previous decades. Oh yes, it's so easy always to blame those in the weaker positions for their problems.
When you're born in poverty, with poor and uneducated parents, chances are it'll be very difficult to get out of it since the vicious circle is in effect... As Negoba as saying, when you're born in one of this "lottery-ticket buying, mcdonalds eating" families, chances are THAT IS WHAT YOU WILL LEARN TO DO, and unless you have some good education or someone to guide you when you're young, leaving the poor ranks will be difficult.
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Lozlan wrote: