Don't Ask, Don't Tell Deemed Unconstitutional

Epignosis wrote: Easy Money wrote: ^ I think you pick and choose what Bible verses are best for you. I can pull up plenty posts in economic/political discussions on PA where you defend the wealthy which is at complete odds with the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament. Meanwhile, most if not all verses condemning homosexuality are found in the Old Testament. Any Bible scholar can tell you the rule of law in the Old Testament was superseded by Jesus' sacrifice in the New Testament. Did you even read the article I linked to?  I just said the notion of wealth accumulation in the Ancient Near East is very different from that which we in the US have.  It is not wrong to be wealthy- the Bible tells us that in plenty of places.  It is when one's wealth becomes more important than following Christ and obeying his commands that there's a problem. I defend the wealthy from the government taking what they've earned.  That position is not unbiblical. If you want to see what the Bible has to say about wealth, here and here. So if the bolded statement above is true (I'm not saying it is or isn't), then is murder okay now? And by the way, the Old Testament law never applied to me in the first place.  I'm a Gentile and I've never lived among the Israelites.  Notice how I've never once quoted a passage about homosexuality from the OT law in these discussions.

"The meek shall inherit the earth...but not the mineral rights" (John Paul Getty)


Edited by ExittheLemming - September 14 2010 at 08:17

I have to go to work soon, so I will leave you with these words to ponder, one of Jesus' many warnings to the wealthy, this time from from James 5 -

"Now listen you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! the wages you failed to pay the workman who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvester have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty.

You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered innocent men who were not opposing you."



Edited by Easy Money - September 14 2010 at 08:36

Epignosis wrote: Easy Money wrote: I have to go to work soon, so I will leave you with these words to ponder, one of Jesus' many warnings to the wealthy, this time from from James 5 - "Now listen you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! the wages you failed to pay the workman who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvester have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered innocent men who were not opposing you." Being wealthy was not these people's sin.  These people's sins were theft and murder in order to become rich.  Very simple.

I would prefer that God's words stand on their own without your spin, which as far as I know, is not contained in any Bible that I own. Notice I added no personal spin, just the word of God by itself.

Edited by Easy Money - September 14 2010 at 22:22

Easy Money wrote: Epignosis wrote: Easy Money wrote: I have to go to work soon, so I will leave you with these words to ponder, one of Jesus' many warnings to the wealthy, this time from from James 5 - "Now listen you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! the wages you failed to pay the workman who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvester have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered innocent men who were not opposing you." Being wealthy was not these people's sin.  These people's sins were theft and murder in order to become rich.  Very simple. I would prefer that Jesus' words stand on their own without your spin, which as far as I know, is not contained in any Bible that I own. Notice I added no personal spin, just the words of Jesus by themselves.

Rob isn't spinning any more than you are. He's focusing on the bolded passages. You're focusing on others. In any written work as complex as the Bible, people will have different interpretations of what passages mean. It's not spin to state an interpretation that is backed up by the text, as both of you have done.

So where is the verse in the Bible that praises the wealthy, or those that accumulate wealth?

Also, you cannot deny that I quoted a verse without adding any words of my own, you did not do that.

Edited by Easy Money - September 14 2010 at 09:04

Easy Money wrote: Give me one verse in the Bible where Jesus speaks positively about those who accumulate wealth. I can give you plenty more where Jesus condemns them, I have one of those very fancy cross-reference Bibles and I can retrieve verses all day long.

That's a poor way of determining what the Bible says, especially since context is very important.

Jesus doesn't speak positively about being wealthy because that wasn't his purpose.  He doesn't speak positively about knowing how to read and write either.  Does that mean literate people are living in sin?

You are welcome to show me verses that you think condemn welathy people because of their wealth, and I will show you how not a single one of them condemns wealthy people because of their wealth.

But I don't suppose we should take over this thread to do that.

Easy Money wrote: So where is the verse in the Bible that praises the wealthy, or those that accumulate wealth? Also, you cannot deny that I quoted a verse without adding any words of my own, you did not do that.

I didn't add words at all.  You think a text condemns wealthy people, and I showed you that it does not by highlighting two sentences you seemed to ignore.

Exegesis and eisegesis are two different things.  I am doing the former, not the latter.

Still looking for that verse in the Bible that praises those that accumulate wealth?

Edited by Easy Money - September 14 2010 at 09:17

Easy Money wrote: Still looking for that verse in the Bible that praises those that accumulate wealth?

You apparently didn't read anything I just said to you.  I can't say I'm surprised. 

I forget but wasn't Jesus laying down moral codes with his life and not political codes?

Epignosis wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Easy Money wrote: Give me one verse in the Bible where Jesus speaks positively about those who accumulate wealth. I can give you plenty more where Jesus condemns them, I have one of those very fancy cross-reference Bibles and I can retrieve verses all day long. Have to say that I agree mostly with the above. The accumulation of wealth nowadays can't sit very easily with the traditional Christian virtues of yore can it? I mean all that competitiveness, borrowing, lending and ruthlessness is enough to cause a meek critter to forfeit his inheritance. Literally following Jesus meant leaving behind your homestead and generally your family and occupation.  You couldn't expect to get wealthy walking behind Christ (though some people thought they could).  You couldn't reasonably expect to drag all your possessions around, either. Today, there is no tangible presence of Christ to literally follow around.  That is why Christians do not sell all their property and give it all to the poor.  We are not required to do that.  One big problem critics of the Bible consistently run into is assuming that every sentence in the Bible has a universal application.  That's not the case at all.  Putting verses in context and understanding who the audience is is not "picking and choosing."  It's proper hermeneutics. As for "traditional Christian values of yore," there are a lot of traditional doctrines I think are false (like eternal hell or Satan / the Devil).