Don't Ask, Don't Tell Deemed Unconstitutional

  I'm sure everyone knows about this already, and it has probably even been discussed in some of our political threads, but I couldn't find a specific topic related to it, so yeah . . . 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/09/10/EDII1FBT5P.DTL

What are some of your thoughts? I hope this ruling stands, even when the opposition tries to get it re-evaluated. It's about time someone put their foot down and actually respected our damn constitution for once.

Non-Americans are free to chime in with their thoughts too, of course. 


Edited by JLocke - September 10 2010 at 22:15

In the modern world and  hopefully more tolerant world, sexual preference should have no bearing on whether military or federal parties agree or disagree. Either soldier I would be proud to stand next to in a line of battle. They deserve medals just for showing up for their country regardless whether they are gay or hetero or where they are going and why? Democarts may not agree on Iraq etc but every soldier has the governments full backing. The army should not decide on sexual preference either, that is wrong, they just need to spend their budget dollars more wisely in managing ' digs"

Edited by Chris S - September 10 2010 at 22:45

Chris S wrote: In the modern world and  hopefully more tolerant world, sexual preference should have no bearing on whether military or federal parties agree or disagree. Either soldier I would be proud to stand next to in a line of battle. They deserve medals just for showing up for their country regardless whether they are gay or hetero or where they are going and why? Democarts may not agree on Iraq etc but every soldier has the governments full backing. The army should not decide on sexual preference either, that is wrong, they just need to spend their budget dollars more wisely in managing ' digs"   ps: Non citizen/permanet resident POV

You would stand next to a gay solider, fine.

Would you shower with one?


Edited by Epignosis - September 10 2010 at 22:59

Epignosis wrote: Chris S wrote: In the modern world and  hopefully more tolerant world, sexual preference should have no bearing on whether military or federal parties agree or disagree. Either soldier I would be proud to stand next to in a line of battle. They deserve medals just for showing up for their country regardless whether they are gay or hetero or where they are going and why? Democarts may not agree on Iraq etc but every soldier has the governments full backing. The army should not decide on sexual preference either, that is wrong, they just need to spend their budget dollars more wisely in managing ' digs"   ps: Non citizen/permanet resident POV You would stand next to a gay solider, fine.Would you shower with one?

That tells us more about your fears than about the wisdom or lack thereof in the resolution.

The T wrote: Epignosis wrote: Chris S wrote: In the modern world and  hopefully more tolerant world, sexual preference should have no bearing on whether military or federal parties agree or disagree. Either soldier I would be proud to stand next to in a line of battle. They deserve medals just for showing up for their country regardless whether they are gay or hetero or where they are going and why? Democarts may not agree on Iraq etc but every soldier has the governments full backing. The army should not decide on sexual preference either, that is wrong, they just need to spend their budget dollars more wisely in managing ' digs"   ps: Non citizen/permanet resident POV You would stand next to a gay solider, fine.Would you shower with one? That tells us more about your fears than about the wisdom or lack thereof in the resolution.

My fears?  I don't fear gay people.

Should women and men in the military shower together?  Why or why not?

The T wrote: Finnforest wrote: Well, I'm old fashioned, but I think military policy should be set by the military, not judges.  I trust they are better able to gauge the effects of rules on their troops, and I think military effectiveness is more important than the rights of the individual who has agreed to join that group.  I think one agrees to the military's rules of admission when you sign the paper. I'm not against gays and lesbians serving personally, my reaction is more about judges and their power to overturn military authority. I understand this point. I'm not so sure it's right to force people to hide their sexual preferences though. Are we then acknowledging that soldiers are by default homophobic?

Whoa, I don't acknowledge anything of the sort.  A few will be, sure, but my comments don't say that. 

To you other comment, I'd have no problem showering with anyone if I signed up for it.  I just think the military owns you when you enlist.  You can't have an army of individuals whining about their rights if you expect to maintain discipline.  YOu can whine once you get out.

JLocke wrote: The T wrote: Finnforest wrote: Well, I'm old fashioned, but I think military policy should be set by the military, not judges.  I trust they are better able to gauge the effects of rules on their troops, and I think military effectiveness is more important than the rights of the individual who has agreed to join that group.  I think one agrees to the military's rules of admission when you sign the paper. I'm not against gays and lesbians serving personally, my reaction is more about judges and their power to overturn military authority. I understand this point. I'm not so sure it's right to force people to hide their sexual preferences though. Are we then acknowledging that soldiers are by default homophobic? This is all I'm really saying. If the apparent discrimination of homosexuals in the military weren't already apparent, I wouldn't care one way or the other. But when you're fighting to serve your country, you should have the dignity to be seen as exactly who you are, and not hide behind some clownish policy some homophobe dreamed up to muddy the waters.

Bullsh*t.

The military doesn't enable you to express yourself.  The military teaches you to march in step, wear the same clothes as everyone else, and be on a strict schedule.  If you sign up, you become a clone when you wear those army greens.  And that's an important aspect of being a solider. 

Did you know religious soldiers aren't allowed to proselytize while they are deployed?  Should they be allowed to be who they are in the course of military duty?

 

Finnforest wrote:   To you other comment, I'd have no problem showering with anyone if I signed up for it.  I just think the military owns you when you enlist.  You can't have an army of individuals whining about their rights if you expect to maintain discipline.  YOu can whine once you get out.

Being forced to hide the deepest part of yourself for fear of being kicked out of the service is a very serious issue for some. To call it 'whining' when someone speaks out about it is unfair. 

 

Epignosis wrote:   Bullsh*t. The military doesn't enable you to express yourself.  The military teaches you to march in step, wear the same clothes as everyone else, and be on a strict schedule.  If you sign up, you become a clone when you wear those army greens.  And that's an important aspect of being a solider.  Did you know religious soldiers aren't allowed to proselytize while they are deployed?  Should they be allowed to be who they are in the course of military duty?

I'm not saying we should let the gays go have gay sex whenever they feel like it while in the service. But to lie about who they are? Surely you can see the difference, here. It's not about expressing yourself, it's about feeling comfortable in your own skin during your service time. I guarantee you that a few closeted gay soldiers had a lot more inner torment going on than their openly straight brothers in arms. You don't think that can affect how you perform or your self-respect? 

 

Epignosis wrote:   See my previous post.  When you join the military, a good bit of your freedoms go out the window.  That's why I'm opposed to the draft.  You know what you are getting into.  Don't like it?  Work elsewhere.

So, if an openly gay man or woman always dreamed of being a soldier, that's just tough sh*t? 

Listen to yourself. 


Edited by JLocke - September 10 2010 at 23:27