Obama Presidency

Your viewpoint directly reflects your education in the modern system. You have to realize that throughout history homeschooling was predominant and compulsory schooling at an institution has arisen only recently.

Edited by Equality 7-2521 - September 10 2010 at 13:28

Equality 7-2521 wrote: I was laying on my stomach, swining my feet in the air, and giggling while I typed it.

I see that point. I could agree with that. But too many parents are absolute idiots. Wouldn't we be condemning their children to eternal idiocy by not giving them the chance to just leave their education in better (or less idiotic if you want, or more prepared )hands? I think home-schooling can exist, but the public option should remain available. 

Edited by Equality 7-2521 - September 10 2010 at 13:44

Equality 7-2521 wrote: In response to T:   The way it used to work is that public schools existed only for poor children. They weren't forced to attend, but the option was available if the parents chose it. Public schooling used to be in a spirit of charity and not compulsion. I would be very happy if we returned to this stage. I would see it as a great victory.   However, I do not believe that money can be taken from people to fund the schools. So I would like even this minimal system done away with hopefully to be replaced by private schools which are funded by donation. These were again pretty prevelent before the public schooling system took over.   I don't think people are as doomed as we suggest without schools. Frankly, people learn very little in public schools now anyway.

Well, okay, when you put it like that, I can agree a little more.

I still think public school should always be there, though. Not everyone can afford private schools.

Equality 7-2521 wrote: JLocke wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Your viewpoint directly reflects your education in the modern system. You have to realize that throughout history homeschooling was predominant and compulsory schooling at an institution has arisen only recently. I don't understand your point, though. Just because something is relatively new doesn't mean it's wrong or insufficient. Frankly, I'm not smart enough to directly influence a child's education, and I would want my children to have as well-rounded of one as possible. Of course I could provide my kid with a private tutor or recommend books and topics I feel would suit his or her personality, but I can't give the diploma myself. It's just more practical and respected these days for achild to learn set curriculum from a recognisable institution. Plus, a lot of parents are stupid.   My point is the way that you feel that way is because of the system which has been a norm. The fact is that children without a public school system did just fine for a long, long time.

Yes, and in a modern society they would do very poorly for themselves without some sort of reputable education. Come on, you know that. It doesn't have to be government-funded, but an education of some sort.

I'm not anti-home-school. I'm simply pro-education. And I personally don't recommend home-schooling for everyone, because not everyone can pull it off.

Equality 7-2521 wrote: When did I say no education? I'm saying people were educated just fine without a schooling system.

But you seem to be oblivious (or uncaring) of the fact that, especially in today's society, it's not possible for everyone to get a consistent, proper education without some sort of system in place. I'm not saying it's the ONLY way to go about it, but it needs to be there for those who cannot educate themselves, cannot afford tutors or private universities, and so forth. You present your case to me as if I lack the mental capacity to understand the history of education, and I'm not as thick as you think in that regard; I'm simply trying to be realistic. What worked back then isn't always guaranteed to work now, and I've seen firsthand how poorly-implemented home education can be more of a detriment to a child's growth than an advantage. 

So, I say again: I do not recommend home-schooling to everyone, and I know that many people cannot afford to send their kids to a private school. So, what's left? Public school or no school. That's why it's there. It's not even close to perfect, but unless we can make private education more affordable or home education more practical, most folks are going to take the government-funded route. It's amazing to me that you don't seem to understand where I'm coming from, here. All you can say in response is that my opinion is a product of the time I live in? No sh*t. And so is yours. But our opinions still differ. I'm not incapable of seeing your side of this, and I even agree up to a point. But please don't act as if the only reason I am not kissing home-schooling's ass is anything other than a well-informed stance I take based on personal experience. 

And before anything potentially starts: no, I'm not angry, and no, I don't wish to start a fight. Apparently I rub everyone the wrong way, so I thought I would put that out there right from the start so there is no misunderstanding later. 

Edited by JLocke - September 10 2010 at 14:25

Equality 7-2521 wrote: I'm not saying its the only reason, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that in the past people were able to educate their children without schools. I don't see the case you're making for why this has changed and would not apply to present society. You mentioned universities in your post. I'm not expecting that people attain university level education. I'm talking about a basic education needed to function in society.   You are right though ultimately I don't care if people are educated are not. Some people should be more educated than others. We can't expect all people have the same level of education.   If you're unaware I'm a libertarian. So ultimately no matter how cogent an argument you make (I do think my argument is more valid for the record) I will not agree to a public school system supported by taxes. If it were supported by donation I and attendence was voluntary, I wouldn't have a problem with the government providing the school, but I won't support tax collection.

Of course people were able to educate their children without schools in the past. And they are still able to do the same today, provided they would truly put the time and effort into it. But so many people don't want to do that these days. What part of that is so outrageous? Young parents especially have all too often shown just how uninterested they can potentially be in their child's education. You're telling me the amount of parents who could be competent teachers for their kids hasn't shrunk considerably in the past 50 to 100 years? I sure think it has. So while I know for a fact that schooling outside of government bounds is not impossible (I was home-schooled, and I think I turned out okay. Though, you may disagree), it's also not guaranteed to work for everyone in every situation. 

I guess I'm ultimately saying that I think there is room for variety in the manner in which we educate our young. And what works for one person may not work for another. So how can I with a sound conscience recommend home-schooling as the preferred method to other people? That's all I ever said: I cannot recommend it. Other people will have to make that call for themselves. 

I'm a libertarian as well, but I'm also a humanitarian, and I care very much about others. Education is a very important part of a person reaching his or her full potential, and until a better solution can be offered, I won't be voting to toss out public schools anytime soon. Even if it IS yet another government screw-up in many ways. 




Edited by JLocke - September 10 2010 at 15:06

The T wrote: In the past everything was simpler. There was less competition, less people. A less technological, more manufacturing-based society. If home schooling worked in the past that's not evidence of it working today. At least this is not an economic law inmutable in time; this is purely sociologic and these things change with time.

Exactly. Thank you for better-articulating my exact thoughts on this matter. 

CCVP wrote: I'm not trying to put gasoline on the fire here, but the brazillian emperor Dom Pedro Segundo was home schoolled and he was one of the greatest intellectuals and politicians of his time. He puts Bismark to shame IMO.

As I've tried to make very clear: there is nothing wrong with home-schooling if it's done right. 

I can't believe this. I jumped into this thread to defend home-schooling. Now, I find myself debating with people who also defend home-schooling over home-schooling!