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Do the Beatles get too much credit.. |
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TheClosing 
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Joined: May 11 2010 Status: Offline Points: 527 |
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 Posted: August 29 2010 at 13:19 |
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A Day in the Life = First prog.
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topographicbroadways
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Joined: May 20 2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5575 |
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Posted: September 08 2010 at 14:10 |
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it's definitely a case that i have noticed among people my age and younger (late teens) that the beatles have been told and talked about so much that people like them just because they are the beatles without really stepping back and making a judgement on the music. I never really payed attention to the beatles they were obviously a big step forward for rock and pop music and alot that happened couldn't have happened without them but they are talked about so much that people are almost afraid to admit they don't like the music. Personally i think the early beatles were brilliant but not to my taste their musical peak to me was the white album which i adore
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Gooner
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Joined: March 14 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 312 |
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 19:55 |
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....sure The Beatles deserve credit(I used to be a naysayer), but in terms of "prog.rock", I look more towards The Zombies and The Move.(or at least the kind of prog. I listen to...which is generally symphonic with a bit of jazz bent).
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himtroy
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 21:08 |
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I think they definitely get too much credit. It drives me absolutely nuts when people credit them for inventing psych rock. Piper at the Gates of Dawn was recorded at the EXACT same time in the EXACT SAME building and is way more psychedelic than The Beatles ever were. There were so many bands with the same style as the Beatles waiting to break through, the Beatles were just the ones who did, and were the most main stream and well marketed. If listening to prog rock has taught us anything isn't it that popularity does not equal musical quality?
That being said, they have some nice tunes. But they're a pop group, don't blow them out of proportion.
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
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himtroy
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 21:10 |
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That is a horribly inaccurate comment. So many things predate it that are more progressive. Even the Byrds are more progressive than the Beatles!
Edited by himtroy - September 09 2010 at 21:10 |
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
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TheClosing
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 21:50 |
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The Byrds are more prog than A Day in the Life ?  Get real man. I'd love to hear what else you've got. ADitL is the most epic four minutes and forty-five seconds in the history of music. It is without a doubt the defining moment of prog in my mind, and I'm by no means a Beatles fanboy.
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Lark the Starless
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 23:24 |
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I'd say they slightly get too much credit....but a good chunk of it is definitely deserved.
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himtroy
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 01:02 |
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People just want to bring the Beatles into everything these days. I never thought I'd hear people claim that A Day in the Life was a start of prog rock...thats ridiculous.
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
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Matthew T
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 01:08 |
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No............Bloody genius
     
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Matt
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TheClosing
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 03:05 |
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Many music connoisseurs consider it the start of progressive rock for a good reason. A Day in the Life was the game changer. I feel you don't understand the impact because you weren't around at the time and you don't want to give due credit either. "When I was 20, I worked at a hotel in a dance orchestra, playing weddings, bar-mitzvahs, dancing, cabaret. I drove home and I was also at college at the time. Then I put on the radio (Radio Luxemburg) and I heard this music. It was terrifying. I had no idea what it was. Then it kept going. Then there was this enormous whine note of strings. Then there was this colossal piano chord. I discovered later that I'd come in half-way through Sgt. Pepper, played continuously. My life was never the same again." - Robert Fripp "It (Sgt Pepper) had an amazing effect on the way people saw records. I mean, people suddenly thought - oh, well you can do that? Well they've done it so of course you can do it. So I suppose it opened a door and showed everyone there's another room that you can all play around in." - Phil Collins "The Beatles. They broke down every barrier that ever existed. Suddenly you could do anything after The Beatles. You could write your own music, make it ninety yards long, put it in 7/4, whatever you wanted." - Bill Buford Edited by TheClosing - September 11 2010 at 07:24 |
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earlyprog
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 06:02 |
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That is horribly incorrect! mention those who state they invented psych rock (whatever you mean by 'psych rock').
That is horribly incorrect! A Day In The Life was recorded before Pink Floyd entered the sudio.
That is horribly incorrect! I would like to know those bands please.
That is horribly wrong! You obviously do not know what pop music is.
Edited by earlyprog - September 10 2010 at 06:03 |
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chopper
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 07:20 |
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To appreciate the full impact of The Beatles, you had to be around at the time. The quotes from Fripp and Bruford above are typical of the impact Sgt Pepper had on musicians when it was release - it gave them the freedom to experiment in the studio as The Fabs were the first band to have the real power to do that.
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chopper
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 07:23 |
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Great post. Can I also add that, outside of the music, they were the first to look on the album cover as a proper work of art with gatefold sleeves and the lyrics printed on the sleeve itself.
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 07:57 |
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I voted 'No' but with the caveat that they are afforded waaaay too many royalty cheques as the unwitting architects of Prog. Brilliantly written, arranged, performed and recorded pop songs are things very close to my heart but have precisely squat to do with the ultimate achievements and innovation of ELP, Crimson, the Nice, Genesis and Yes etc
Whenever the Fab Four attempted to step too far outside the verse/chorus/middle eight format they fell flat on their faces IMO. e.g. Revolution # 9 being but a gauche fanboys homage to Stockhausen amounting to no more than weird random sh*t. Even Lennon's much trumpeted experimentation e.g. Strawberry Fields, Tomorrow Never Knows, Mr Kite etc (which I adore) work because despite their prescient and innovative structures, it's the tried and tested glue of classic songcraft that means they're still standing today. John's one abiding love in music was very basic early rock'n'roll. As far as pop songs are concerned, the Beatles have no peers. |
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chopper
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 08:07 |
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I think the quotes above from Fripp and Bruford clearly show that is incorrect.
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 08:16 |
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Point taken Chopper but creating a door doesn't make anybody an architect.
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rogerthat
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 08:16 |
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Er, what? Constructing a short song that is absolutely not cliched in any way, is very fresh and still hits the spot right on the first listen and appeals to a large audience is possibly the hardest kind of songwriting there is. And few could master it the way Beatles did, Stevie Wonder in the 70s came close. Certainly none of your beloved prog rock bands could have written pop masterpieces like either artist and the evidence of Genesis and Yes seems to support my statement.  Your statements seem to suggest that you have great difficulty in accepting that a Beatles fan too, like fans of any other band, would have heard their music and formed coherent opinions on it and want to believe that we all blindly follow the herd. Which other band in the 60s could have written Love You to, Day In the Life, Because, I Want You, Tomorrow Never Knows, Taxman, Strawberry Fields Forever, In My Life, Penny Lane? That is such an eclectic mix of songs. Edited by rogerthat - September 10 2010 at 08:18 |
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The T
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 10:49 |
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Yes.
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Floydman
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 12:42 |
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Interesting the Beatles as voted by 200 musicians on VH1 100 GREATEST ARTISTS WERE VOTED THE NUMBER ONE ARTIST. I would like to know what bands were doing songs like "Eleanor Rigby", "Tomorrow Never Knows" or most of Sgt Pepper. They sound nothing like the Doors or even the Beach Boys Pet Sounds. The Beatles had influences like everyone else but basically every band reacted to what the Beatles were doing and some of it was negative though
Please get your facts straight The Beatles already recorded "Tomorrow Never Knows' and much of Revolver in April 1966. In fact Syd Barrett main influence was the Beatles and "Arnold Layne" was influenced by "Strawberry Fields Forever"
The Musical Influences of Syd Barrett
The Beatles 'Revolver' (1966 Strawberry Fields Forever' (single 17 February 1967) *'Strawberry Fields Forever' marked the way for Barrett in its revolutionary use of poetic images and superb psychedelic arrangement. It was released just ten days before the sessions for 'Arnold Layne', which bears its influence. Beatles 'Seargent Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band' ( Edited by Floydman - September 10 2010 at 12:44 |
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Floydman
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Posted: September 10 2010 at 12:59 |
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I don't get this at all. The early Beatles as lauded by people like Dylan, Richards and specifically the Byrds were known for their interesting chord choices.
Most rock bands prior the Beatles hardly used bridges or middle eights or even changed time signatures. Which means the Beatles as compared to their blues-based peers were changing chords and melodies much more than someone in 1964-1965. The Beatles didn't use a chorus in many of their songs or the basic blues structure of verse/verse/verse. Songs like "You Can't Do That" messed with the basic blues model by using the blues based verse and then adding a pop like styled bridge on songs "You Can't Do That" or "She's A Woman" basically creating blues/pop hybrid. One of the many reasons they sounded different than American artists.
The Beatles would actually change time signatures on the bridge which was basically unheard of in rock music in songs like "We Can Work It Out" and "She Said She Said". Songs like "Good Morning Good Morning" constantly changed time signatures and "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds" alternated 3/4 and 4/4 which each section. Not really common stuff in rock music.
There is nothing basic about the song structures on many of the tracks after Rubber Soul espeically "A Day in the Life" or "Happiness is a Warm Gun". People criticize "Revolution #9" but what actually is the song structure for that? Edited by Floydman - September 10 2010 at 13:06 |
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TheClosing wrote: