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Equality 7-2521 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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 Posted: September 08 2010 at 23:22 |
 The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Hey T we're in America. Is it so strange we would use the term as the American meaning instead of the international one? |
PAt, we're on the INTERNET. Yes, we're talking about American politics on this thread but Mom is talking about somebody he doesn't even know about it would seem... And, really, any person with a hint of knowledge about Guevara will laugh, in America or anywhere else, regardless of the dictionary you want to use, at him being called a "liberal"... 
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We're in America, talking about an American president. Will you chastise us for using an idiom like "flying by the seat of your pants" because in other parts of the world that would illicit laughter?
You know what he means when he says liberal. I don't see why you keep trying to criticize people for using the term that way. I'm well aware of what classical liberalism means. I'm well aware of why the meaning has changed in America. I'm sure MoM is too.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 00:07 |
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Hey T we're in America. Is it so strange we would use the term as the American meaning instead of the international one? |
You realize America is a continent, right?
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 00:44 |
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Is good for Mom that he always has somebody ready to jump to "defend" him (as if he had been "attacked") at the first chance, and it's always the same person. I wish I had someone like Pat.
I'm not even judging the use of he term "liberal" so much (I'm used to it now) but at the ridiculous notion that Che was a liberal. Or is it that finally you have decided to make the equation liberal=communist that I've always though you libertines do?
Edited by The T - September 09 2010 at 00:45
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 01:17 |
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 05:22 |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 05:25 |
The T wrote:
Is good for Mom that he always has somebody ready to jump to "defend" him (as if he had been "attacked") at the first chance, and it's always the same person. I wish I had someone like Pat.
I'm not even judging the use of he term "liberal" so much (I'm used to it now) but at the ridiculous notion that Che was a liberal. Or is it that finally you have decided to make the equation liberal=communist that I've always though you libertines do? |
I'm defending myself actually. Since I use the term the same way you may as well have been criticizing me. It's the same reason I always defend him. In the past you've attacked beliefs he's had, I have had the same beliefs. I defend him to defend myself.
Liberal =/= Communism, but Communist => Liberal, that is, it is a subset of the set of liberals.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 06:20 |
And let's not forget about the central bits. Back on topic:  
Edited by Slartibartfast - September 09 2010 at 06:37
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 07:43 |
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Is Obama the first president in history that we're going to feel sorry for as the country suffers? I didn't get that memo.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 08:04 |
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Hey T we're in America. Is it so strange we would use the term as the American meaning instead of the international one? |
You realize America is a continent, right?
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Wrong. America is a country. North America is a continent, and South America is a continent. I've explained this a thousand times, but am happy to do so again. Most country names have two parts, a descriptive phrase reflecting the style of government and a name. "The Kingdom of Norway." "The Principality of Liechtenstein." We don't go around calling Norway "The Kingdom" do we? Furthermore, if you're going to insist that we call America "The United States" then I insist that you apply the same standard to Mexico, whose official name is in fact "The United States of Mexico" or "The United Mexican States." I cannot understand why it galls you liberals so much that we want to call our country by its name.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 08:25 |
It doesn't gall me. We are the only country with "America" in it's name in this hemisphere. It's just a nickname. We are US and if you aren't US then you must be them...
Edited by Slartibartfast - September 09 2010 at 08:26
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 09:22 |
The T wrote:
manofmystery wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
The problems I have with Obama are
1. Not being as liberal as he's been accused of being.
2. Trying to compromise with and reach consensus with a political opposition that has no interest in doing so.
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1. I'm pretty sure Slarti doesn't believe Che was liberal either. For christ's sake Ernest Che Guevara was no liberal Mom, he was a marxist-lenininst. Liberal is a different thing, something that in principle is actually quite similar to what you want ("laissez faire"). It's only here in the US where the term liberal is used for left-winger... In ALL other parts of the world is more associated with free-market apostles... And yes: let's talk about Guevara or any other communist... Let's see how much you've read and studied of non-US politics... Probably nothing, if you are ready to say something so reeking of ignorance as "Che is a liberal".. |
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How unreasonable of me to use US terms when talking to another person in the US. I'm fully aware we don't use the word correctly but it seems a bit much for me to go through explaining that every time it comes up.
As for Che: he was a psychopathic killer whose lionization is simply disguisting.
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 Time always wins.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 11:45 |
^Oh Mom that last part is more of an explanation than saying "Che was a liberal". I actually agree with your last sentence in a 60% (he was an idealist, just as you or Pat are.. just with dangerous ideas...)
Llama, liberals don't get upset about the use of the word "america"... It's people in SouthAmerica and in North America (like Mexico and Canada) because we feel you just took the name...
Funny, Mexico is actually called "The United States of Mexico"... They should start calling themselves US now, too...  |
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: SanDiegoTijuana
Status: Offline
Points: 4373
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 12:09 |
Wrong again. Its a continuous and contiguous landmass.
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: SanDiegoTijuana
Status: Offline
Points: 4373
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 12:12 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 12:21 |
thellama73 wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Hey T we're in America. Is it so strange we would use the term as the American meaning instead of the international one? |
You realize America is a continent, right?
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Wrong. America is a country. North America is a continent, and South America is a continent. I've explained this a thousand times, but am happy to do so again. Most country names have two parts, a descriptive phrase reflecting the style of government and a name. "The Kingdom of Norway." "The Principality of Liechtenstein."
We don't go around calling Norway "The Kingdom" do we? Furthermore, if you're going to insist that we call America "The United States" then I insist that you apply the same standard to Mexico, whose official name is in fact "The United States of Mexico" or "The United Mexican States."
I cannot understand why it galls you liberals so much that we want to call our country by its name.
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False. America is the entire continent. Named after Amerigo Vespucci. The entire thing. North and South. The whole landmass from alaska and canada till cabo de hornos in Argentina.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 13:01 |
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
Wrong again. Its a continuous and contiguous landmass.
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Wrong about me being wrong.
Yes it is a continuous landmass. So are Europe and Asia. They are still seperate continents.
There are 7 continents. NA, SA, Africa, Asia, Europe, Antartica. That's the definition of a continent. One of those 7 enumerated, defined masses. The fact that some of them are connected means nothing.
If you're going to be cocky, you should be right.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 13:07 |
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Oh God, I'm loling so hard right now.
Great job Walter.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 13:08 |
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It is pretty fun when people are wrong, but still try to convince people of their position.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 13:11 |
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Hey T we're in America. Is it so strange we would use the term as the American meaning instead of the international one? |
You realize America is a continent, right?
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Wrong. America is a country. North America is a continent, and South America is a continent. I've explained this a thousand times, but am happy to do so again. Most country names have two parts, a descriptive phrase reflecting the style of government and a name. "The Kingdom of Norway." "The Principality of Liechtenstein."
We don't go around calling Norway "The Kingdom" do we? Furthermore, if you're going to insist that we call America "The United States" then I insist that you apply the same standard to Mexico, whose official name is in fact "The United States of Mexico" or "The United Mexican States."
I cannot understand why it galls you liberals so much that we want to call our country by its name.
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The United States, being the first republic established out of disparate British colonies found in the extensive landmass known as America, is indeed the United States of America. However, America is a continent and there's more countries in it. Exclusive monopoly rights to a hemisphere's name? Monroe Doctrine hubris strikes again!
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I never said we had exclusive rights to the name. I said America is the name of our country and people shouldn't get bent out of shape when we use it. About the continent thing, Pat did an excellent job of correcting you, so I won't bother.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: September 09 2010 at 13:27 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
Wrong again. Its a continuous and contiguous landmass.
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Wrong about me being wrong.
Yes it is a continuous landmass. So are Europe and Asia. They are still seperate continents.
There are 7 continents. NA, SA, Africa, Asia, Europe, Antartica. That's the definition of a continent. One of those 7 enumerated, defined masses. The fact that some of them are connected means nothing.
If you're going to be cocky, you should be right. |
You are talking with people of all around the world. In the rest of the world, in books and atlases and everything, America is one big thing that goes from Argentina to Alaska and Canada and Greenland. There are just 5 continents. Asia, Europe, Africa, Oceania and America, plus two extra ones in Antarctica and the Artic Pole. That's it. Now don't go changing things.
Or maybe in you school or your home-school you learned it that way. Good. Let's just say the rest of the world learned it the other way. And that's why people say you are wrong.
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