Theism vs. Atheism ... will it ever be settled?

^^^ I guess that's what they call the argument from stupidity.

Edited by Mr ProgFreak - September 06 2010 at 16:34

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: What starts flawed ends flawed   Textbook wrote: Theist: Ah, but you must believe in god because of this here bible quotation.   We don't want to convince you to believe or disbelief,that's your option, and for religious people freedom of choice is basic.   You can believe in what you want as long as you leave us believe in what we want.   Iván

Unless your happen to be born into a religious family that keeps working at you until you adopt your parents' religion.

So if Ivan doesn't want to convert us, that means Ivan wants us to go to hell. Now that's not very Christian.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: Unless your happen to be born into a religious family that keeps working at you until you adopt your parents' religion.

If you truely believe in the afterlife, nothing is more important. Nothing in this world could be more important than the eternal afterlife in paradise. I put it to you that your actions reveal that you do not fully believe in it.

Textbook wrote: Secondly, could a theist please respond to this?  "Even a believer must conclude that belief in god MUST be absurd, otherwise there would be no test of faith."

During the reign of the Romanov Dynasty in Russia, Jews were persecuted by the state, and cast these people as outcasts. There were several pogroms where hundreds if not thousands of Jews were killed by the Christian Orthodox state. This is fact. Now, I know that the common perception of the USSR was an atheist hate machine, but this was an incidental thing. Peasants in Russia/Ukraine were not killed because they were religious, they were killed because of their perceived opposition to the state. This 'opposition' was based around several ideals, some organised, some false, and some religiously constructed. The same can be said for the actions of Romanov state - the two cases are much the same. The only truth about religious persecution in Russia is that historically, the more powerful side will persecute the other REGARDLESS of what religion is held or any lack thereof.

Any questions of religious persecution have as much to do with dominant political group psychology than complete religious hatred. Although there are obvious elements of this. Ergo, Religion acts as a barrier between people, and without it, people will simply find other things to divide themselves; culture, language, history, appearance, comparative wealth etc. Thus, I find this whole debate pointless and absurd.

Simply: It is not a question of religion, but basic human psychology which runs irrespective of belief.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: Unless your happen to be born into a religious family that keeps working at you until you adopt your parents' religion.   We have the right to give our children the education we believe is better as much as you, we are their tutors and responsible for their formation, if we believe religion is the best option, why shoiuld we deny religious education to them?   We don't care how you raise your children, we don't tell you how to do it, leave us that option.   Iván Go ahead and scare them into believing, but it is my right to call that not only immoral, but inhumane and barbaric.

Mike this is not a personal stab at you....do you have children? There are many non barbaric religigious families outthere where religion is part of the family life. I am not talking about the abhorrent indoctrination kind of family. Most kids when they hit teens will rebel regardless of how persuasive/non persuasive their parents are. I am just curious as to whether you have kids because it does help formulate an opinion better if you have. Because family dynamics play a role regardless of whether you thank allah, Pan or Jesus before you eat your broccolli or brussell sprouts

Haven't people realized yet that textbook is just a troll? 

JJLehto wrote: Any Colour You Like wrote: Eh, Religion has had more than enough time shaping the Earth, most refer to this period of History as the "Dark Ages".  Oops? Did we do that? I know all religion is bad, but this is all I had. Sorry to all the other religions out there I couldn't insult

Edited by Henry Plainview - September 06 2010 at 17:47