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40footwolf 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 651
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 Posted: September 05 2010 at 19:28 |
I actually didn't start this-I simply mentioned qualities that would make a good hip hop song and somebody else launched in with all that "it isn't REAL music" jive.
To clarify: I am not saying that not liking hip hop makes you a snob. It's fine if you don't. I am saying that you are a snob if you say it is NOT MUSIC. You're a snob, and wrong to boot. And I never attacked ELP, Yes, Genesis or any of the Old Guard-why would I, seeing as how I like those bands so much?
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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: September 05 2010 at 19:31 |
 40footwolf wrote:
I actually didn't start this-I simply mentioned qualities that would make a good hip hop song and somebody else launched in with all that "it isn't REAL music" jive.
To clarify: I am not saying that not liking hip hop makes you a snob. It's fine if you don't. I am saying that you are a snob if you say it is NOT MUSIC. You're a snob, and wrong to boot. And I never attacked ELP, Yes, Genesis or any of the Old Guard-why would I, seeing as how I like those bands so much? |
He never said you did attack ELP,Yes etc.
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40footwolf
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 651
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Posted: September 05 2010 at 19:33 |
Snow Dog wrote:
40footwolf wrote:
I actually didn't start this-I simply mentioned qualities that would make a good hip hop song and somebody else launched in with all that "it isn't REAL music" jive.
To clarify: I am not saying that not liking hip hop makes you a snob. It's fine if you don't. I am saying that you are a snob if you say it is NOT MUSIC. You're a snob, and wrong to boot. And I never attacked ELP, Yes, Genesis or any of the Old Guard-why would I, seeing as how I like those bands so much? |
He never said you did attack ELP,Yes etc. |
I thought he was implying it. If not then I rescind my statement in that regard.
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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: September 05 2010 at 19:35 |
40footwolf wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
40footwolf wrote:
I actually didn't start this-I simply mentioned qualities that would make a good hip hop song and somebody else launched in with all that "it isn't REAL music" jive.
To clarify: I am not saying that not liking hip hop makes you a snob. It's fine if you don't. I am saying that you are a snob if you say it is NOT MUSIC. You're a snob, and wrong to boot. And I never attacked ELP, Yes, Genesis or any of the Old Guard-why would I, seeing as how I like those bands so much? |
He never said you did attack ELP,Yes etc. |
I thought he was implying it. If not then I rescind my statement in that regard. |
It is rather unclear for Ivan. But if he meant you he would have said you I'm sure. 
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: September 05 2010 at 19:38 |
When I think of "prog hip-hop" I'm not sure such a thing actually exists but Canibus' Poet Laureate Infinity was pretty way out there in concept.
There's also things like Deltron 3030 which flirted with prog territory.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: September 05 2010 at 19:41 |
Progressive rap certainly is possible though it arguably hasn't yet been done. I was going to do it back when I was going to be a rapper at all.
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: SanDiegoTijuana
Status: Offline
Points: 4373
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Posted: September 05 2010 at 19:48 |
40footwolf wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
40footwolf wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
1989 was the last great year in the history of music, so is it any wonder that the apogee of hip-hop is from 1989?
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So you're admitting you haven't heard any hip hop since 1989?
EDIT: I'm going to sleep, but should the discussion, as it were, continue, I'd advise people who haven't listened to rap/hip-hop since the first Bush administration to refrain from speaking with any authority on the matter.
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Why would I want new music when I can have real music?
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That is maybe the most asinine thing I have ever read.
I'm still waiting for a concrete argument as to how hip-hop isn't "real" music. So far all I've heard is that it's all sampling(it isn't) and that it doesn't take any talent(it does). Nobody's saying you have to LIKE hip-hop but to say it isn't music is simply, patently, wrong. There isn't an argument to be made otherwise. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the genre and, honestly, music as a whole. |
All post-1989 music is trash.
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40footwolf
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 651
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Posted: September 05 2010 at 19:54 |
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
40footwolf wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
40footwolf wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
1989 was the last great year in the history of music, so is it any wonder that the apogee of hip-hop is from 1989?
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So you're admitting you haven't heard any hip hop since 1989?
EDIT: I'm going to sleep, but should the discussion, as it were, continue, I'd advise people who haven't listened to rap/hip-hop since the first Bush administration to refrain from speaking with any authority on the matter.
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Why would I want new music when I can have real music?
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That is maybe the most asinine thing I have ever read.
I'm still waiting for a concrete argument as to how hip-hop isn't "real" music. So far all I've heard is that it's all sampling(it isn't) and that it doesn't take any talent(it does). Nobody's saying you have to LIKE hip-hop but to say it isn't music is simply, patently, wrong. There isn't an argument to be made otherwise. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the genre and, honestly, music as a whole. |
All post-1989 music is trash.
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Alright, well...thanks for alerting me to the fact that you'll be impossible to have a conversation with now or at any point in the future.
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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: September 05 2010 at 20:03 |
Walter: This hip-hop album was made in 2005 but is about the year 1988. Are you able to listen to that?
The album was massively acclaimed by a lot of people but it disappointed me. I thought it was kind of vanilla.
Ooh, another rap classic still in rotation at my place is Mr Lif's I Phantom.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: September 05 2010 at 20:08 |
40footwolf wrote:
To clarify: I am not saying that not liking hip hop makes you a snob. It's fine if you don't. I am saying that you are a snob if you say it is NOT MUSIC. You're a snob, and wrong to boot. And I never attacked ELP, Yes, Genesis or any of the Old Guard-why would I, seeing as how I like those bands so much? |
As Snow Dog, said, if I had implied you attacked any band, you would had known it because the first thing I do in this cases is quote the person, what I said is that it's common to do it in Prog Archives.
Now, I don't like Hip Hop that's true, as a fact I hate it and don't hide my opinion, but neither I saidall Hip Hop is not music, what I don't consider original or creative music is sampling.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 05 2010 at 20:09
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40footwolf
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 651
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Posted: September 05 2010 at 20:10 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
40footwolf wrote:
To clarify: I am not saying that not liking hip hop makes you a snob. It's fine if you don't. I am saying that you are a snob if you say it is NOT MUSIC. You're a snob, and wrong to boot. And I never attacked ELP, Yes, Genesis or any of the Old Guard-why would I, seeing as how I like those bands so much? |
As Snow Dog, said, if I had implied you attacked any band, you would had known it because the first thing I do in this cases is quote the person, what I said is that it's common to do it in Prog Archives.
Now, I don't like Hip Hop that's true, as a fact I hate it and don't hide my opinion, but neither I saidall Hip Hop is not music, what I don't consider original or creative music is sampling.
Iván
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Okay, I was a little confused on your position. Thanks for clarifying. 
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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14573
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Posted: September 06 2010 at 00:02 |
ProgHiphop wrote:
& not all hip hop is 4/4
for example outkast's hey ya switches between 2/4 & 4/4
nas's hip hop is dead is 3/4 i believe
and im positive theres more
and many producers in rap actually do play instruments. usually bass & synth/piano but real drums and electric/acoustic guitar is present in hip hop. maybe on the billboard top 100 but its out there |
Not all outkast's output is pure hip-hop. It's the only hip-hop band whom I purchased an album and there's a lot of jazz when they don't talk... Inside any genre there can be something good. Also Madonna can have a good song, it's a statistic fact. Write 1000 songs and at least one will be good. But looking at the whole genre, I don't find a reason to listen to it and less reasons to have it on PA. Please let us venerate our dynosaurs.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Progressive rock music & Hip Hop?
