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Joined: September 04 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Topic: Progressive rock music & Hip Hop? Posted: September 04 2010 at 17:12
I see many prog fans (not on this site so far though) say that hip hop is unintelligble and talentless. although this is true for some hip hop artists, there are many Hip Hop artists that are influenced by prog, sample prog songs, or use prog elements. here are some examples.
Mahavishu orchestra- you know you know sample
King Crimson- 21st century schizoid man sample
name of song is misleading, there actually is subject matter.
Can- sing swan song sample and a 6/8 time signature, unusual in hip hop
king Crimson- Book of saturday sample
King Crimson- I talk to the wind sample........subject matter isn't great but i still respect the song
Gentle Giant- Funny ways sample, and MF DOOM (the rapper) usually raps offbeat, an element usually found in prog
Toto- Africa sample
A remix of tom sawyer done by DJ Z-trip
Apparently there's a pink floyd sample. i cant find one aside from the helicopter sound in the beginning. help would be appreciated.
Even DIDDY sampled alan parson's project in "the saga continues". i cant find the song though.
I'm sure theres more but i don't think its necessary to post anymore videos
what are your guys' opinions on the connection between hip hop and Prog?
Joined: August 02 2010
Location: Slovakia
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Posted: September 04 2010 at 17:37
There are some great hip hop interprets who are far more interesting and intelligible than the usual 50 Cent rubbish. Try Dalek, Nephlim Modulation Systems or El-P (no connection with Emerson, Lake & Palmer :))
Good taste is the enemy of creativity. (Pablo Picasso)
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Online
Points: 17973
Posted: September 04 2010 at 17:49
Problem I have with today's Hip Hop artists is they don't pay enough homage to the originators of hip hop....Its like they think they (todays artists) actually invented it. I don't listen to any of it, I truely feel its rubbish.
I see many prog fans (not on this site so far though) say that hip hop is unintelligble and talentless. although this is true for some hip hop artists, there are many Hip Hop artists that are influenced by prog, sample prog songs, or use prog elements. here are some examples.
I would rather think that there aren't many artists like that, but more like "some" artists. Am I right ?
Samples, hip-hop themed covers are one thing, but what about something more, um, original ? More like Prog Hip Hop ? Is there out in wilderness of music something like that ?
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"
Joined: September 04 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Posted: September 04 2010 at 18:34
yes theres progressive hip hop. it's normally called alternative hip hop though and there actually are many alternative hip hop artists ranging from the birth of hip hop to now. a rapper named Wale made 2 concept mixtapes based on seinfeld. that's progressive imo. even jay-z has said his next album is going to be the most experimental album he's ever made. and also, groups like outkast and a tribe called quest are experimental in there music. i could go on and on.
Outkast, they made it to big Top 500 by Rollings Stones magazine, as far as I know. However so did Eminem, with his song that I see as a cover of Kashmir (Led Zep).
I'm extremely unskilled in hip-hop, so I don't have much knowledge about this issue.
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"
Joined: September 04 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Posted: September 04 2010 at 20:02
yes not all hip hop is money and ho's. if anybody on this forum would like im willing to put people onto hip hop, as you guys are helping me learn more of prog
I feel like having a prog sample in a hip hop song has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the hip hop song. It'll be good for any number of reasons-flow, lyrical agility, good beats-but just because it has a prog sample doesn't make it good, or particularly intelligent, even, any more than if it samples metal or TV shows. I don't understand where that notion came from.
First of all, who is "they"? Are you presuming that all hip hop artists fall under a nebulous "they" banner? Because you're mistaken-many write their own music, many are even trained in musical theory.
Even if we were working under the (incorrect) assumption that all hip hop, everywhere, forever, is made up entirely of samples, that would still be "writing music". Let's check out the dictionary definition of music:
1.an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color.
2.
the tones or sounds employed, occurring in single line (melody) or multiple lines (harmony), and sounded or to be sounded by one or more voices or instruments, or both.
So even when you use samples, you're arranging them in a way that's musical. If that wasn't the case, ELP's liberal borrowing of passages from classical composers would also be this dreaded non-musical entity you seem to fear so much.
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: SanDiegoTijuana
Status: Offline
Points: 4373
Posted: September 05 2010 at 03:57
A collage is not a Rembrandt painting; there is only cutting, pasting and arranging. There is no tactile relationship between the creator and the creation, and all parts of the palate are purely incidental elements derived from other sources.
ELP playing classical music involves musicians actually playing instruments that are characterized the tonal characteristics of 70s technology. Their work is not on the same level as some dj slapping an LP on a turntable, hitting "Record" and then playing it over a phat beat.
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Progressive rock music & Hip Hop?
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