Theism vs. Atheism ... will it ever be settled?

^ Itls like selling sand to an Arab

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html

Some examples:

"All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die." 3:85
"Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom." 4:14
"Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers." (See 2:65-66) 4:47
"Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed." 4:52
"Those who refuse to follow Muhammad, follow false gods and are deceived by Satan." 4:60

And finally:

"Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom." 5:73

Good luck turning that into a message of tolerance of other religions.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ Try selling to a devout Muslim that Catholicism and Islam are basically the same - so it doesn't really matter whether your prophet of choice is Mohammed or Jesus. @Iván: I'm sorry that you spent so much time on an elaborate response - but I already know all that. Sure, Islam claims that Jews and Christians are worshiping the same God, and that earlier prophets might have been valid at the time. But it also claims that since Mohammed arrived at the scene everything changed and now Islam is the only path to salvation.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 03 2010 at 01:51

BTW: I never said that Catholicism and Islam are the same, both are different in many aspects, what I said is that the two religions worship the only God.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 03 2010 at 01:53

This God is quite a popular guy for someone who has never popped in to say helloI guess his prescence is everywhere and billions of people are all hanging by a thread because they have no evidence to back their faith up?

Allah wrote the Qu'ran personally (through the fingers of Mohammed and later mediators) so his excistence is beyond doubt.

Edited by tuxon - September 03 2010 at 04:57

Mr ProgFreak wrote: @Iván: I won this argument. Until you can get Muslims to accept the Trinity or Christians to accept that Jesus was just a man, I will conclude that those two faiths are mutually exclusive - and for many other reasons too. Please don't insult my intelligence (or that of the other users for that matter) by following this straw man argument that it's basically the same God, that is getting you nowhere. If you like you can go to the Middle East though and walk around in the Gaza strip wearing a sign saying "Catholicism and Islam are interchangeable". I would recommend though that you settled your affairs first.

1. Have said it 3 times: Christianisn and Islam are not the same: I wouldn't walk for Gaza, Taiwan or for New York saying that   Catholicism and Islam are interchangeable because both religions are different, I have never said both religions are interchangeable because Islam has their own set of dogmas and their own doctrine that difers in many issues with Christianism, starting with the Trinity (that you said it wasn't mentioned in the Bible).
2. I said both religions worship the same God and that Moslems show respect for Christ, that's all, but you keep changing it over and over, because this sounds too tolerant for your prejudices and hatred against any religion.
3. Don't insult the intelligence of all the people here, inventing things I never said to make your point seem valid
4. I just can't imagine how weak your position must be when you need to change the words of a poor deluded ignorant Catholic who has no evidence of the existence of God, in order to sound more logical than him,

I won't ask you respect for what I believe because it's impossible for a fundamentalist and fanatic atheist like you to show any respect for anything that you haven't thought, but at least have the courtesy NOT TO CHANGE WHAT I SAY.

"win" and this thread are mutually exclusive... 

When God releases a decent prog album, I'll have a bit more faith in the whole concept of religion.

Ivan, do you think that using bigger fonts makes your points more convincing?

You don't care whether you misrepresent me ... but you are playing the hurt feelings card because in your opinion I misrepresented you. Well, our recent discussion started by me claiming that Catholicism and Islam are mutually exclusive. You disagreed, and your main argument was that both religions in principle worship the same God. I never denied that (notice how you misrepresent me here, claiming that " this sounds too tolerant for your prejudices and hatred"). "Hatred"? Excuse me? Show me one post in this thread where I'm in a hateful mood. Sorry, but you're the hateful one in our exchanges. You get angry, you go on tirades against Mike, the evil Atheist. IMO this really childish - and unnecessary.

BTW: I was exaggerating in my post. Maybe I shouldn't have done that - but you're doing it all the time, so I don't really mind if you of all people choose to be offended by it.

Now, by all means keep ignoring my arguments, including the verses from the Qu'ran that confirm my position.

Oh, and about this little nugget (100% original and unchanged):

Iván wrote: Mike, you haven't given a single argument that proves the non existence of God, escept YOUR logic,, that many here don't share, at least we have scriptures that support our cklaims, you only have gusesses ad bitter words towards rhose of us who dare to believe.

I did not invent logic. I don't need to give any such argument. If you think that in order to validate the Atheist position it is necessary to prove the non-existence of God, you're simply, plainly

WRONG.

It happens. To you, to me, to anyone ... sometimes we're wrong. In the post that you got so angry about I said "I win" - but I really mean that logic wins. I happen to have the more reasonable position - that is my opinion, and if you disagree - fine. I don't have any problem with it. I say "I win", you say "no you don't", and we can leave final judgment to the others.


Edited by Mr ProgFreak - September 03 2010 at 14:45