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Points: 3281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2010 at 03:13
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by ProgBob ProgBob wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

Wire, Television, Magazine, Gang Of Four, Patti Smith, The Fall, Glenn Branca, The Cure, Husker Du, REM, The Smiths, The Minutemen etc, etc, they were running rings around some of the prog bands of the day in terms of making new and unfamiliar sounds. With the current shift in the sight towards including "interesting" music rather than just prog stuff, perhaps post-punk will be in here one day.
Sorry. I must disagree.
Some of the artists you mentioned were making some slightly interesting music.  But mostly the sound was "whine & complain".
 


I can't relate your assertion to what I know of these bands - not that I know all of them very well.  But if you are going to say something like that, I expect you can back it up with a few examples.

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:


The major labels were out in full force, pushing bands to be stylish instead of creative.


This is truer of the remaining 'prog' bands at the time than about any of the bands listed above, at least in terms of label influence (though I would say it was more towards making the music formulaic and commercial rather than anything to do with being stylish).  The assertion that The Fall or The Smiths were being pushed by major labels to be stylish is simply laughable.

Laughable?  Nihilistic, droning, easy to produce depressing music was all the rage. 
 
Were there any remaining prog bands at the forefront?  At that time, ELP was gone, King Crimson had resurfaced with the Discipline band (which, despite being lesser than their previous albums, was better than any of the bands you mentioned), Genesis was even poppier than Asia, Yes came back with 90125 (again, better than the bands you mentioned)...
 
The best music was hidden underground. And was extremely rare in the U.S.  Univers Zero, Dr. Nerve, Djam Karet, and even Marillion, to name just a few  and the like were playing better music than all of the bands you mentioned, but were obscure to all but a few.  Radio was getting homogenized by corporate interests, and the Internet was in it's infancy.  There was no easy way to discover anything but the pap the major record labels were offering. 
 
 

I couldn't disagree more. 
 
 
Seconding Snow Dog's sentiment. Evolver needs new ears for Christmas.
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2010 at 22:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiXoFUu2sCM
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2010 at 22:32
The 80s were better than the 70s, all considered. Maybe prog wasn't as good but pop music sure as f**k got a lot better.
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2010 at 22:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9fZlNbyLVU&a=GxdCwVVULXcbHwCjViMjrpQcNe781HF3&playnext=1
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Points: 4338 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2010 at 22:54


"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2010 at 22:55
Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:



Rawks
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Points: 4338 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2010 at 23:18
Or maybe this


"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2010 at 23:20
Not too bad Brian!
There's more on here then I thought Embarrassed

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheMeatfilledTaco#p/u/5/ixtjOvC-R8w   Shocked
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2010 at 00:15
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

The 80s were better than the 70s, all considered. Maybe prog wasn't as good but pop music sure as f**k got a lot better.


I disagree, we had Stevie Wonder, Minnie Riperton, Earth Wind and Fire, ABBA in the 70s. And Michael Jackson's Off the Wall too.  Opinions may differ which of 70s or 80s was a better decade for pop, but it is not by a huge margin.  But artists like Stevie, EWF would get slotted in funk/soul in the 70s whereas in the 80s it was either rock or pop.  Also, some 80s 'pop' groups like Toto have a fair amount of rock in their music and by that definition, bands like Steely Dan, Queen, APP would also be pop.  In that case, the scales clearly tilt in favour of the 70s for me.  Having said all that, 80s was a good decade for pop, I certainly agree with that.
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Points: 5482 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2010 at 13:35
Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

Hey, I won a radio contest with that song.
They were looking for the worst song ever recorded.
That song won a listener poll.
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Points: 5482 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2010 at 13:39
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by ProgBob ProgBob wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

Wire, Television, Magazine, Gang Of Four, Patti Smith, The Fall, Glenn Branca, The Cure, Husker Du, REM, The Smiths, The Minutemen etc, etc, they were running rings around some of the prog bands of the day in terms of making new and unfamiliar sounds. With the current shift in the sight towards including "interesting" music rather than just prog stuff, perhaps post-punk will be in here one day.
Sorry. I must disagree.
Some of the artists you mentioned were making some slightly interesting music.  But mostly the sound was "whine & complain".
 


I can't relate your assertion to what I know of these bands - not that I know all of them very well.  But if you are going to say something like that, I expect you can back it up with a few examples.

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:


The major labels were out in full force, pushing bands to be stylish instead of creative.


This is truer of the remaining 'prog' bands at the time than about any of the bands listed above, at least in terms of label influence (though I would say it was more towards making the music formulaic and commercial rather than anything to do with being stylish).  The assertion that The Fall or The Smiths were being pushed by major labels to be stylish is simply laughable.

Laughable?  Nihilistic, droning, easy to produce depressing music was all the rage. 
 
Were there any remaining prog bands at the forefront?  At that time, ELP was gone, King Crimson had resurfaced with the Discipline band (which, despite being lesser than their previous albums, was better than any of the bands you mentioned), Genesis was even poppier than Asia, Yes came back with 90125 (again, better than the bands you mentioned)...
 
The best music was hidden underground. And was extremely rare in the U.S.  Univers Zero, Dr. Nerve, Djam Karet, and even Marillion, to name just a few  and the like were playing better music than all of the bands you mentioned, but were obscure to all but a few.  Radio was getting homogenized by corporate interests, and the Internet was in it's infancy.  There was no easy way to discover anything but the pap the major record labels were offering. 
 
 

I couldn't disagree more. 
 
 
Seconding Snow Dog's sentiment. Evolver needs new ears for Christmas.
I would bet  New Ears would agree with me. Tongue
For the most part, 80's mainstram music was excruciatingly bad.  Sorry to those of you who's formative years were in that decade.
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Points: 46 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2010 at 13:47

I always liked that Safety Dance video. It was clear they were just having fun, unlike so many others in the 80s, they weren't trying to come up with some dark visionary artistic statement.  
 
"and you can act real rude and totally removed and I can act like an imbecile"
 
Great line.
 
Plus the beat was cool with a good sonic character. The synths weren't painfully cliched, (like say, VH's Jump).
 
The video era was not kind to bands like YES or Asia and the like. Leave It for instance, was just that . . . they left it to a couple of moron video 'artistes' to make their statement for them. 18 times over in staggeringly boring fashion. Owner of a Lonely Heart was a tiny bit better only because they included some footage of the band 'playing' (miming) to the song every once in a while, but it was rather dumb. Love Will Find A Way was the same, although a bit more colourful. But how 'bout that groundbreaking Progrock video for Asia's Don't Cry? Maybe they were just having fun, but just watching it I was embarrassed for them.
 
Anyway, every era has their pop and some is good, some is embarrassing, some is great, some is blindingly formulaic. In other words, Pop is fairly consistent. You know what you're getting pretty much.
 
Something like Prog, should be always a surprise, like an ever opening flower, something new and creative. You can't really say that about 1980s progrock in general.
 
But don't we need periods like that if only to spur new artists to do something really new and exciting?


Edited by Pangaea - August 22 2010 at 13:51
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Points: 5482 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2010 at 17:05
Originally posted by Pangaea Pangaea wrote:

The video era was not kind to bands like YES or Asia and the like. Leave It for instance, was just that . . . they left it to a couple of moron video 'artistes' to make their statement for them. 18 times over in staggeringly boring fashion. Owner of a Lonely Heart was a tiny bit better only because they included some footage of the band 'playing' (miming) to the song every once in a while, but it was rather dumb. Love Will Find A Way was the same, although a bit more colourful. But how 'bout that groundbreaking Progrock video for Asia's Don't Cry? Maybe they were just having fun, but just watching it I was embarrassed for them.

Right there you've hit upon what was wrong with 80's mainstream music.  The look was more important than the music.  Who cares what the video looked like?  These are musicians, not visual artists.
 
Most 80's bands were photo models with synthesizers.  BFD.
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2010 at 18:39
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by Pangaea Pangaea wrote:

The video era was not kind to bands like YES or Asia and the like. Leave It for instance, was just that . . . they left it to a couple of moron video 'artistes' to make their statement for them. 18 times over in staggeringly boring fashion. Owner of a Lonely Heart was a tiny bit better only because they included some footage of the band 'playing' (miming) to the song every once in a while, but it was rather dumb. Love Will Find A Way was the same, although a bit more colourful. But how 'bout that groundbreaking Progrock video for Asia's Don't Cry? Maybe they were just having fun, but just watching it I was embarrassed for them.

Right there you've hit upon what was wrong with 80's mainstream music.  The look was more important than the music.  Who cares what the video looked like?  These are musicians, not visual artists.
 
Most 80's bands were photo models with synthesizers.  BFD.
 
Only matter of time before I chimed in here.  Wah, you talkin'  'bout Flock of Seagulls?  Huh?  Dont be messin' with that.  LOL
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2010 at 18:44
Yeah, Safety Dance is epic but this a contender, for both music and video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUjIA3Rt7gk

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Points: 46 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2010 at 22:09
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by Pangaea Pangaea wrote:

The video era was not kind to bands like YES or Asia and the like. Leave It for instance, was just that . . . they left it to a couple of moron video 'artistes' to make their statement for them. 18 times over in staggeringly boring fashion. Owner of a Lonely Heart was a tiny bit better only because they included some footage of the band 'playing' (miming) to the song every once in a while, but it was rather dumb. Love Will Find A Way was the same, although a bit more colourful. But how 'bout that groundbreaking Progrock video for Asia's Don't Cry? Maybe they were just having fun, but just watching it I was embarrassed for them.

Right there you've hit upon what was wrong with 80's mainstream music.  The look was more important than the music.  Who cares what the video looked like?  These are musicians, not visual artists.
 
Most 80's bands were photo models with synthesizers.  BFD.
Well, musicians or not, once they all started sounding like Foreigner it didn't really matter what they looked or sounded like really.
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2010 at 22:46
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Yeah, Safety Dance is epic but this a contender, for both music and video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUjIA3Rt7gk

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They just don't make 'em like that anymore.  The whole early-80's thing was absolutely infused with prog though dumbed down for the masses (me being one of the masses).  Once those synths got polyphonic, it was game on.  Here's a little Wall of Voodoo for ya'll.
 
 
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Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2010 at 23:16
And while I'm at it, here's some The Wipers.  This was released roughly the same time as ABACAB, not really meaning to pick on Genesis, it's just a reference point.
 
So which is more proggy?  Just askin'.
 
 
 
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2010 at 03:02
We're digressing away from prog somewhat here. As this thread is in the prog section, can we stick to that please.
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2010 at 04:17
Why can't we allow the discussion to evolve in whatever direction the members of this forum take it? Reigning in the scope of the conversation just so it continues to fit certain pre-ordained parameters seems like a bafflingly restrictive idea.
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