Theism vs. Atheism ... will it ever be settled?

seventhsojourn wrote: @Mike, Just want to ask about a couple of your previous comments.    Also, where is the logic in being indifferent to going to hell?

The atheist is driven by one fear; the fear of being wrong. It’s an incredibly powerful primary-school  oriented tool.  This is why guys like his precious 4 Horsemen prey on school children. They use the fear of being wrong to convince school children to join them.  Those children are at the most vulnerable time in their lives with respect to the “I must make sure I am always right” syndrome.  The education system demands that all students take this stance and “Pitch Men” like Mike's high priests exploit that fear. (I see Dawkins and Britney Spears in the same light, pure entertainers with no regard for what they have to say or do to sell tickets).

I’m and old man and a Christian and I can safely say that I don’t care if I’m right about it.  I believe I am but if I’m wrong, I will never know.  If the atheists are right and there is no afterlife I’ll never know.  I will, however, die believing in it so I win.  I have no reason to fear that it is not there. That possibility does not change my belief or day to day attempt to live out the tenets of my faith.  When I die I will have won or lost the prize according to my behavior regardless of whether the prize exists or not. 

The atheist cannot stand in my shoes.  His fear of being wrong drives his reliance upon science as a way of “knowing”.  Scientists love to say that they don’t know everything as an easy statement to make, and one that excuses their errors. After all it was the scientists that told us the world was flat, not the Bible.  Religious people simply believed it because it made sense at the time.  Scientists were the olds who told us we could tell what kind of person someone was by reading the bumps on his head, not the Bible.  Those were scientific mistakes and most scientists admit them.

So science with its logic and reason seems to be the only way to be really sure of anything and logically, one must place all one’s faith in it.  But as Dawkins says (and Mike parrots) “I caahhhn’T be 100% ssure thatT Gud doessn’T exissT”, (with heavy emphasis on the letter t and extra sibilance).

This is the great and terrible fear of the atheist, that they may be wrong.  As I said, if I am wrong I still win because I will never know I was wrong.  For the atheist, however it is a different story.  If he is wrong he will have to face God, explain himself, and be judged accordingly and this prospect is terrifying.

Athiests will say that that don’t have this fear because of their lack  of belief but that is testimonial and cannot be backed up by any facts or "even anything that could remotely be called evidence", so it is 99.77% (Dawkins’ number for the likelihood of God’s  existence) probable that it is untrue.  Atheism (post-theism may be different, more research is required) is a religious position based upon fear.

Trademark wrote: seventhsojourn wrote: @Mike, Just want to ask about a couple of your previous comments.    Also, where is the logic in being indifferent to going to hell?   No Atheist is indifferent to the prospect of going to Hell.  They are terrified of it.  Atheism is not based on logic.  It is based on fear.  It is one of the most fear-mongering religious positions on the planet (at this moment, anyway).  What is the atheist afraid of? (I’ll talk about them all here as if I knew them all in the same wan Mike speaks about all Christians as if he knew anything at all).

Trademark wrote: The atheist is driven by one fear; the fear of being wrong. It’s an incredibly powerful primary-school  oriented tool.  This is why guys like his precious 4 Horsemen prey on school children. They use the fear of being wrong to convince school children to join them.  Those children are at the most vulnerable time in their lives with respect to the “I must make sure I am always right” syndrome.  The education system demands that all students take this stance and “Pitch Men” like Mike's high priests exploit that fear. (I see Dawkins and Britney Spears in the same light, pure entertainers with no regard for what they have to say or do to sell tickets).

I could say something in response here, but I'll rather sit back and enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself. [insert popcorn munching emoticon here]

Trademark wrote: I’m and old man and a Christian and I can safely say that I don’t care if I’m right about it.  I believe I am but if I’m wrong, I will never know.  If the atheists are right and there is no afterlife I’ll never know.  I will, however, die believing in it so I win.  I have no reason to fear that it is not there. That possibility does not change my belief or day to day attempt to live out the tenets of my faith.  When I die I will have won or lost the prize according to my behavior regardless of whether the prize exists or not.

What a selfish attitude. Well, I care about the world we live in. I don't know whether I still will 20-30 years from now.

Trademark wrote: The atheist cannot stand in my shoes.  His fear of being wrong drives his reliance upon science as a way of “knowing”.  Scientists love to say that they don’t know everything as an easy statement to make, and one that excuses their errors. After all it was the scientists that told us the world was flat, not the Bible.  Religious people simply believed it because it made sense at the time.  Scientists were the olds who told us we could tell what kind of person someone was by reading the bumps on his head, not the Bible.  Those were scientific mistakes and most scientists admit them.

Fear. Of hell? Not at all. Of dying? Sure. Who isn't afraid of death? Right ... religious people who bought into the idea that this life is just a prelude to the real life. If I'm right, we'll both never know. If you're right, there's a good change that we'll meet again in hell - at least if you didn't pick the right religion (there are 30,000+ denominations of Christianity alone).

In any case, I doubt that even jampa or Iván would agree with your theory that all Atheists are driven by fear of hell. Like I said in the first post, if they were they would try to become religious.

Trademark wrote: So science with its logic and reason seems to be the only way to be really sure of anything and logically, one must place all one’s faith in it.  But as Dawkins says (and Mike parrots) “I caahhhn’T be 100% ssure thatT Gud doessn’T exissT”, (with heavy emphasis on the letter t and extra sibilance).

[more popcorn munching ... and some hollering like in the Married With Children sitcom]

Trademark wrote: This is the great and terrible fear of the atheist, that they may be wrong.  As I said, if I am wrong I still win because I will never know I was wrong.  For the atheist, however it is a different story.  If he is wrong he will have to face God, explain himself, and be judged accordingly and this prospect is terrifying.

Now it's a "great and terrible fear" ... sounds like something you'd read in the Lord of the Rings.

What if you're wrong? What if Hinduism is right - or Buddhism? How can you even sleep at night?

Atheists don't believe that there is a god. I guess that you, as a Christian, are not afraid of the Muslim version of hell. And you believe in the supernatural. Now, why should an Atheist, to whom the concept of an afterlife is completely ridiculous, fear any of this nonsense?

Trademark wrote: Athiests will say that that don’t have this fear because of their lack  of belief but that is testimonial and cannot be backed up by any facts or "even anything that could remotely be called evidence", so it is 99.77% (Dawkins’ number for the likelihood of God’s  existence) probable that it is untrue.  Atheism (post-theism may be different, more research is required) is a religious position based upon fear.

But doesn't all that watering-down make actually being Christian not particularly important?