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Anthony H. 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 11 2010
Location: Virginia
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Points: 6088
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 Topic: "Prog Goes Metal" vs. "Metal Goes Prog"
Posted: August 21 2010 at 21:27 |
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While listening to various progressive metal bands, I've noticed two distinct sub-types within the genre:
1) Progressive rock meets metal (Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation, Ayreon, Riverside)
2) Metal meets progressive rock (Symphony X, Psychotic Waltz, Shadow Gallery, Pagan's Mind)
I consider both equally progressive. Who else thinks this is a valid way of looking at the genre?
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: August 21 2010 at 21:56 |
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aye maybe
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watchmen
Forum Newbie
Joined: August 20 2010
Location: Chile/Santiago
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Points: 14
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Posted: August 21 2010 at 22:12 |
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Maybe, like Triceratopsoil said, but I think that Shadow Gallery is more "prog goes metal" than "metal goes prog"; at least their first album is more in that way.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 03:54 |
Since metal is an established and defined genre, it's the first approach that is, at least in theory, more progressive. Except, prog goes metal to me really means stuff like Red, Larks Tongue In Aspic PtII, Pantagruel's Nativity and so on. I cannot really draw such a significant line of distinction between say DT and SX. DT have become more and more metalized over the years, but even from the beginning the main difference between them and SX was that DT's base was the more commercial and mainstream 80s hair metal and to an extent heavy metal, with some influence of Metallica in the riffs where SX's was traditional and power metal. However, the base for both was clearly metal to begin with and not progressive rock. PoS are a step away from what you describe in some songs and ACT get even closer and er, they get called eclectic prog. 
Edited by rogerthat - August 22 2010 at 03:56
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 05:43 |
There's also "extreme metal guys go avantgarde" or "black metal guys add folk instruments to their sh*t" 
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O666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2009
Location: TEHRAN-IRAN
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 05:48 |
 watchmen wrote:
Maybe, like Triceratopsoil said, but I think that Shadow Gallery is more "prog goes metal" than "metal goes prog"; at least their first album is more in that way. |
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rdtprog
Special Collaborator
Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams
Joined: April 04 2009
Location: Mtl, QC
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Points: 5284
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 06:18 |
Anthony H. wrote:
While listening to various progressive metal bands, I've noticed two distinct sub-types within the genre:
1) Progressive rock meets metal (Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation, Ayreon, Riverside)
2) Metal meets progressive rock (Symphony X, Psychotic Waltz, Shadow Gallery, Pagan's Mind)
I consider both equally progressive. Who else thinks this is a valid way of looking at the genre?
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I would say that the first categoriy is more progressive, more complex compare to the second category. I prefer the first one, obviously...
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zappaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Location: flyover country
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Points: 2822
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 07:10 |
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All I know is, it's two great tastes that taste great together.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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dtd350
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2010
Location: Connecticut, US
Status: Offline
Points: 111
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 09:36 |
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^Agreed, but I am a metal head as well as a progressive rock adict so maybe my opinions are a bit skewed where as someone who likes the classic rock and progressive rock end of things and metal might be a bit much for them would dislike these genres. I agree with the OP as well. I think all these artists are progressive within their prespective sub-genres.
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http://www.last.fm/user/dtd350
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 09:47 |
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Hmm, I am a metalhead and barring the absolute top tier of prog metal, it doesn't do much for me. I would rephrase what you said and say that at least to like the melodic side of prog metal, you need to like 80s hair/glam metal or even 80s pop rock like Toto a lot. I do like some aspects of Toto, but it's not my favourite kind of music and that kind of slick, over-conscious mode of expression doesn't agree with me. Unfortunately, it's a very pervasive element of prog metal where metal is brutal (pun intended) abandon.
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Niv
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 12 2010
Location: Adelaide
Status: Offline
Points: 82
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 10:22 |
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 11:08 |
^ it wasn't a joke, try Unexpect / Meshuggah on one side and Negura Bunget on the other and you'll see it was just an honest description!
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TheOppenheimer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2010
Location: Buenos Aires
Status: Offline
Points: 228
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 11:31 |
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i find the first (prog meets metal) to be more prog, complex, fluent and balanced
while i find the second (metal meets prog) too metal-ish, with some prog influences
anyway, i really like both genres, and none is better than the other.
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A veces es cuestión de esperar, y tomarte en silencio.
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Niv
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 12 2010
Location: Adelaide
Status: Offline
Points: 82
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 13:13 |
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 13:40 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
There's also
"extreme metal guys go avantgarde"
or
"black metal guys add folk instruments to their sh*t"
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word
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el böthy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 6336
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 17:30 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
There's also
"extreme metal guys go avantgarde"
or
"black metal guys add folk instruments to their sh*t"
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My favorites!
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 17:40 |
Anthony H. wrote:
While listening to various progressive metal bands, I've noticed two distinct sub-types within the genre:
1) Progressive rock meets metal (Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation, Ayreon, Riverside)
2) Metal meets progressive rock (Symphony X, Psychotic Waltz, Shadow Gallery, Pagan's Mind)
I consider both equally progressive. Who else thinks this is a valid way of looking at the genre?
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Well, it's somewhat valid, but very vague. Also keep in mind that you've only mentioned traditional prog metal bands there. You're completely forgetting about the prog incarnations of death metal, black metal, avant metal, industrial metal, doom metal, folk metal, goth metal, etc. etc. etc... It's valid when you're saying something like "this band is first and foremost a metal band, but they have quite a few prog influences" or vice versa. Otherwise, it's a pretty poor way of describing a band IMO.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 18:00 |
rogerthat wrote:
prog goes metal to me really means stuff like Red, Larks Tongue In Aspic PtII, Pantagruel's Nativity and so on. |
This sums it up IMO, couldn't agree more
progressive metal bands are firsty and foremost metal bands, with progressive as secondary genre
progressive rock bands are first and foremost rock bands, with progressive as secondary annotation.
and a little overlap between rock and metal is to be expected as metal is rock, just more metalic
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Tsevir Leirbag
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009
Location: Montréal
Status: Offline
Points: 8321
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 18:29 |
Anthony H. wrote:
2) Metal meets progressive rock (Symphony X, Psychotic Waltz, Shadow Gallery, Pagan's Mind)
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They all seem more progressive to me.
Metal meets progressive rock would most likely be post-Human Death, Portal, Opeth, Edge of Sanity, Atheist, Negura Bunget or Cynic...
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Les mains, les pieds balancés
Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers,
Un marin mort,
Il dormira
- Paul Éluard
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: August 22 2010 at 18:45 |
Tsevir Leirbag wrote:
Anthony H. wrote:
2) Metal meets progressive rock (Symphony X, Psychotic Waltz, Shadow Gallery, Pagan's Mind)
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They all seem more progressive to me.
Metal meets progressive rock would most likely be post-Human Death, Portal, Opeth, Edge of Sanity, Atheist, Negura Bunget or Cynic... |
Meshuggah, Gorguts
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"Prog Goes Metal" vs. "Metal Goes Prog"
