How many members actually read about Prog? |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12812 |
Posted: August 14 2010 at 08:55 | ||
10cc sung about us in : The Dean & I: 'hey kids let me tell you.......' |
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: August 14 2010 at 09:55 | ||
I just started a thread with the question "How did Genesis fans react to The Lamb" so I guess I'm being directly refered to here...
I'm not a prog novice, I'm 44 and I have listened to prog since before I knew what it was, my elder family members listened to prog while I was doing my addition and substraction and multiplication homework. My lifetime mates are also prog fans, we grew together listening to prog (and other music as well), we have had years of discussions, we have read magazines... you know what I mean.
I think I have a pretty good idea of how did Genesis fans react to the release of The Lamb. And if I want to learn more about it, sure, I can search the net and read stuff for 2 full days.
That's not the point. Reading is one very important thing, but it is something completely different from an internet forum. Reading is a 1-way exercise and the purpose is purely to inform and educate yourself.
Forums are an interactive amusement. I think many of us here use the forum as a sort of tool for chatting with other people who like similar music as we do, to engage in (hopefully) entertaining discussions, even if in many occasions we will hear again and again what we already know or what has been already said 100 times before.
I'm not expecting a single reply by an authoritative music history scholar telling me the objective truth of how did Genesis fans react to The Lamb. I'm simply expecting to hear other PA members' opinions and have some fun.
I understand what you mean and surely all of us can and should educate ourselves, but I think you miss the point of what a forum is for.
Edited by Gerinski - August 14 2010 at 11:25 |
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VanVanVan
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 756 |
Posted: August 14 2010 at 13:18 | ||
This, as well as what Gerinski said above.
Edited by VanVanVan - August 14 2010 at 13:19 |
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"The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen
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Chris S
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
Posted: August 14 2010 at 13:48 | ||
Right here is my opinion for what it's worth:
How much time do people have to ,say for example, using any topic starter like the Neo/Lamb thread, start doing an exstensive search/research first to see if this topic has been started before? Very few unless you have so much time on your hands that you like to challenge " search" engines
The forum allows an awful lot of people to type away in the " NOW" so unless you are a serious accountant who enjoys auditing copious amounts of threads, then your main thrust or motivation perhaps is not the topic itself, more in data mining.
Another thing. There is always the noobies and the oldies tag. Just for the record, so what if a topic has been started previously again and again by newer members. I like Mike Oldfield- Incantations. Why? Because it is repetitive. I also like seeing similar posts from newer members repeating certain topics. Why? I like repetition. The site is better off for it, encouraging ongoing debates from all aspects of membership. That is how it evolves. What happens when all the older members move on? 100 years years on we are still discussing Bach, Mozart, Beethoven. We do not have people up in arms saying please refer to the original writings about these discussions, this has been discussed before
So leave behind the elitist thoughts and encourage fresh discussion, however repetitive you may feel it is. Gerinski for example as outlined above has made some really excellent thread starters recently
As for comments about the site having more elements of negativity lately, I do not agree.It seems like the same old complaints pissing against the wind. Rudeness, insulting and abusive posters aside let's be more tolerant of new questions and discussions regardless of whether some people feel they have doctorates in progressive music. Experience is knowledge so cultivate it, not smother it.
Good thread topic BTW And rave on.....all those looking for prog, it will change your life forever
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: August 14 2010 at 14:05 | ||
Actually i don't think you your thread was being referred to at all. Unless nit has been later on and I missed it.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: August 14 2010 at 23:19 | ||
Well, my thread topic was not much different from these so...
No problem, and anyway what I said applies to any such kind of topics, whoever the OP is.
Now and then I also see some thread which personally I find silly, I simply ignore that one and go to some other one which I find more interesting or amusing.
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 13467 |
Posted: August 14 2010 at 23:28 | ||
I'd like to think one day i'll read more about Prog but for now i'm way too busy with work,family and listening to music. I read very little except the newspaper. One day i'd like to read some of Peart's books and general books on the seventies progressive movement.Oh and Krautrock. I don't know if i'll make the time though when listening to music means so much more to me than reading books.To each his own i suppose.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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Devonsidhe
Forum Groupie Joined: April 21 2010 Location: PDX, OR Status: Offline Points: 74 |
Posted: August 14 2010 at 23:34 | ||
[QUOTE=Dick Heath]
I feel we getting an increase in the number of threads with titles such as: what was the first prog album,
was Lamb Lies Down first neo-prog album,
is jazz prog?
What is worse the reponses usually don't direct the originator to points of references. So is there a tendency here to argue rather than educate??? (/QUOTE)
First to answer your question: I do try to read not only the content on this site but also books or magazines not referenced here. I try not to stay with just one source.
But I'm not sure if referencing what we write is always the answer. References are needed in a scholarly manner if we are analyzing historical or factual matters. But, much of this forum is heavy on opinion. (which I like) If I see someone using someone else as a source for their opinion, I'm wondering if they have an opinion?
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Even a man who stumbles around in the dark will influence those he does not see.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: August 14 2010 at 23:42 | ||
I am sorry if this comes across as a little nasty but it seems that you, Dick Heath, didn't read Anthony's OP in the 'Lamb' thread too properly:
So, he clearly did know that neo-prog as a term didn't exist at the time of that album's release and was simply raising a question about some similarities in the music, which by itself was a rather interesting question. It's unfortunate that you think any use of the word neo-prog out of context even for comparison and not for a factual discussion is so blasphemous. |
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Devonsidhe
Forum Groupie Joined: April 21 2010 Location: PDX, OR Status: Offline Points: 74 |
Posted: August 14 2010 at 23:59 | ||
My vote goes to keep encouraging all questions. Like many have said, even if the question has been asked before, it doesn't mean it will get the same answer as before. The best solution may be to add another category to the forums page for those who want a scholarly and intellectual discussion. If correctly labelled, those who aren't interested will go elsewhere.
But, if we want to keep encouraging new members who are interested in learning, let us have a forum so they can talk with all of us old dinosaurs. We would learn from them as much as they learn from us.
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Even a man who stumbles around in the dark will influence those he does not see.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: August 15 2010 at 00:25 | ||
I'm talking specifically about free improvisation. There was no set structure or theme or composition in these performances but I am pretty sure they're music.
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Darklord55
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 08 2007 Status: Offline Points: 357 |
Posted: August 15 2010 at 07:26 | ||
1- I think you must learn work with quote. "Learning" is very useful for you.
2- Please note to "speak seriously". Everybody free to speak about everything but when you want to analysis music (or other arts) you must have knowledge about that.
3- I'm not "SNOB" like you and I dont talk about myself. I write my opinion about this topic. If you dont want to read books or try to know about music, why insult me?
4- Music have 2 faces : a)rules and knowledges b) feel and sense. Great musician use their knowledge to impress others. They use perfect technique or perfect arrangment (for example) to make perfect music. What is your criteria for good music?
5- I think you like music for one reason : HEADBANG!!!
1 - I listen to music for pure enjoyment. I listen to the music I like. I don't have the desire to always analyze a certain piece of music. I listen to Bach, John Coltrane, Opeth and The Flower Kings etc. etc. All because I like their music.
2 - I never said I don't read books or did I say learning was not important.
3- I never called you a snob. I did not directly insult you. I critizied the attitude. I don't know you and therefore had no intentions to insult YOU. It's not my fault you personalilzed it.
4 - My criteria is, well I guess I already answered that. Because I like or enjoy it. I usually don't listen to music I don't like. For example, Rap, Country, the pop music of today, etc. etc.
5 - What's wrong with a little headbanging?!
6 - I hope we can still be friends.
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O666
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2009 Location: TEHRAN-IRAN Status: Offline Points: 2619 |
Posted: August 15 2010 at 15:45 | ||
First I want to talk with LORD. I never want to upset you. I know You dont know me but You attack to me. I just tell my opinion about THIS TOPIC. I dont know you too and when I dont know you why I want to personalize. If I upset you please forgive me my friend. ( sometimes I headbanging too . )
Hi Henry. I try to say improvisation have own structure. I mean without structure never made music. Maybe I shouldn't use "structure" word . I cant found another word to explain my opinion. You know , I use "babylon" to write in English and sometimes its very difficult work!!!!
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Darklord55
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 08 2007 Status: Offline Points: 357 |
Posted: August 16 2010 at 08:39 | ||
Ok, maybe I didn't explain it clear enough. I'm not upset at all. There is nothing to forgive. I hold nothing against you. I did not intend what I said to be an attack on your person. It's like I tell my son when I need to correct him. "I'm not mad at you, but upset at the behaviour." I don't like it when proggers come off like a snob. I include me with that attitude. I have to watch myself so when I do critique a certain style of music that I don't come off snobish and the music I like is better than the music someone else likes. Even though it is. So please forgive me as well.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20239 |
Posted: August 16 2010 at 10:42 | ||
Hi Dick, (-a little mlate on the sunject, but....)
I understand where you're coming from and share some of your frustrations.....
One must be dealing with the side effects of the Web and modern society.
I have quite a few books on prog and music in general now, but when younger (in my teens), I only had one reference book, an Illustrated Encyclopedia of rock, that was mostly minding of English speaking rock (although Ange and Magma were featured, but not Harmonium or Rush). So the only places I took my infos from were the monthlies (Rock'n Folk and Best in French, Creem in English) and to a lesser extent the weeklies (Sounds, once in a while) and the free stuff (the Canadian periodical New Music Express - I know) and the odd book, notably Gallo's book on Genesis, but I can't say this quenched my thirst much.
First, the younger members, impatient (wanting everything now and not waiting for tomorrow) and broke (at least for buying stuff they can have for free). PA is sort of an entry-typoe of site, where newcommers can ask intelligent and dumb questions. PA 's forum reputation is not exactly known for its elitist membership, and that's probably why it's so successfull.......
But deep inside of me, I wish more some people (not necessarily the younger ones, some are actually quite advanced) refrained from being too impulsive and not thinking enough their opening posts..... Because if they thought about it more, they'd probably find their answers by themselves with having to post it.
Nowadays there are flurry of books and sampler boxsets with plenty of info, but you have to BUY them
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 20 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1601 |
Posted: August 16 2010 at 14:38 | ||
I don't frequently read the articles on the site, but I'm informed enough to not ask retarded questions. It is kind of irritating to hear things like "What are some of King Crimson's best albums" anymore though, knowing how clearly laid out it all is on the site.
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
Posted: August 16 2010 at 15:01 | ||
I couple of my pictures have been used in at least 2 books ... and one website did not even have the gall or the werewithal to ask if they could use my pictures!
Sometimes the polite thing to do is the easiest!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Rabid
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 20 2008 Location: Bridge of Knows Status: Offline Points: 512 |
Posted: August 17 2010 at 00:53 | ||
1
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"...the thing IS, to put a motor in yourself..."
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O666
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2009 Location: TEHRAN-IRAN Status: Offline Points: 2619 |
Posted: August 17 2010 at 06:37 | ||
We can talk about good music or bad music and give reasons for our opinion. Like compare 2 guitarist. One of them have beter technique and we recognize that. BUT when we want compare 2 guitar-hero this is not work. If we vote to one of them this vote come from our TASTE. Writers have their own taste. Many books just explain their writer's taste. Maybe one writer like Genesis more than YES and write a book about that and young fans after read that book thinks " Genesis beter than YES"!!!!
I never trust to this kind of books. I trust to my EARS.
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Darklord55
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 08 2007 Status: Offline Points: 357 |
Posted: August 17 2010 at 08:14 | ||
I trust to my EARS.
I agree 100%!! For the most part, who's the better guitarist, drummer, etc etc varies as much as reviews do of an album. A five star to some may be a one star to others. The best guitarist to one could be not so great to another. If I strictly depended on the opinion of others I would have missed out on some incredible music.
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