70's sound and interpretation compared to today

mono wrote: Very interesting topic! Those grow too fast for me, I just can't keep up... About the main subject, I play with a trio that plays music driven by improvisation, and that's "made-for-live". So we asked ourseleves this question before going to the studio: do we record live (all of us), or individually with MIDI correction... We have quite a 70's sound, mixed with modern ones (piano, rhodes, organs, synth...), and we went with the live recording, as we thought that it would bring out the energy of the music in much more accuracy. There is also the fact that we react a lot to each other's playing, so it makes it difficult to imagine an instrument-by-instrument recording. Still, this is far from being a general opinion. I think bands like Porcupine Tree, Oceansize, Meshuggah made the absolute right choice by going with the cleanest most produced sound they could get, because I think these bands need to have perfect productions in order for their music to sound best. But I could very well see bands like Mastodon, La Terre Tremble!!!, or math rock bands recording live, because a 'rawer' sound is welcome, and energy comes from a great symbiosis of the instruments. Another question comes to mind with this discussion: Metronome or no metronome for recording? Do you need to be in perfect sync all the time?

"OK lads, this is the final take, so i want to hear plenty of mistakes...you listening Rick?"

For the most part I'm with Friede on this one, actually. A lot of modern music, regardless of how well it is written doesn't appeal to me as much as the 70's stuff, simply because the older it is the more real it feels to me. Studio "perfection" often feels robotic to me as well, but I will say that the actual music is what matters most, regardless of production.

No, because the flaws are removed, which makes the musicians sound like machines.

As an ELP fan I've noticed one or two comments about Keith Emerson being 'sloppy' when he plays. I actually agree with that but to be honest I prefer listening to him play when he doesn't make mistakes!

BaldFriede wrote: richardh wrote: As an ELP fan I've noticed one or two comments about Keith Emerson being 'sloppy' when he plays. I actually agree with that but to be honest I prefer listening to him play when he doesn't make mistakes! Anyway all these mistakes that prog bands made in the seventies to make their records more 'real'. Please can I have a list? I am not talking of actual bun notes or the likes. it is the slight imperfections that make it sound organic.

BaldFriede wrote: No, because the flaws are removed, which makes the musicians sound like machines.

 

A couple more examples of things which make some modern albums sound soul-less:

Edited by Gerinski - August 14 2010 at 03:20

moshkito wrote: BaldFriede wrote: No, because the flaws are removed, which makes the musicians sound like machines.   In the end, the problem is that some musicians think that if you remove the flaws, that they are better musicians ... and the result is, in the end ... that they are not.   Eventually it will show in the next album or song, or whatever ... it becomes more repetitive.   One more thing from the other post ... a musician thinking that he/she has to live by the metronome, is not listening to the music in the heart and inside ... is simply listening to the "beat" and the notes, or chords and making sure he/she can get them all in.   Therein, lies the problem, and you have to make a decision ... you either play what your heart and fingers and feel want to go to, regardless of the notes and beats and metronome, and when you have something ... then you can maybe clean it up some ... in the end, when you come up with something so different and so exciting to you because it will be, I guarantee you, you will know the real meaning of "music" ... and what it is to be a creative force!   The rest is just songs, and if all you can do is look or listen for the metronome, I doubt the song or the piece of music can get better ... and guess what helped "progressive" come alive? ... you have to let go of the conventional structures and designs to create something new ... stop trying to reinvent the wheel!

BaldFriede wrote: The main difference is quite simple: and the real reason why 70s prog is so much better than today's: The bands had very limited studio time, so the albums are all imperfect; there are little flaws on them everywhere. Today every little flaw is removed by just recording another take. This makes the albums perfect but hopelessly sterile. Fortunately there are still a few bands around that know it is the little flaws that give spirit to an album, but it is mostly the bands that have been around for thirty or forty years already.

I would DEFINITELY DISAGREE WITH THIS.

So would Mr. Frank Zappa.

Frank Zappa, on the recording of Freak Out!!

"The recording schedules where ridiculous, making it impossible to perfect anything on the album. It was the typical kind of bullsh*t we had to put up with until I got my own studio.
When you record on 'a label,' you're always woking on their budget -- on their schedule. When the budget runs out, that's it. If the master doesn't sound right, what the f**k do they care? It goes out anyways -- it's only 'product' to them."

-- Quoted from The Real Frank Zappa Book. Italics and bold retained from the original text.

What you're saying (and, I'm sure, a lot of other people on this thread, but only read first page) is silly nostalgia. Sure, sound effects and certain mistakes can be sorta nice, but it's always better if this quirks are composed in, instead of just fluked. I'm sure most musicians would prefer infinite studio time. Just cause you have it, doesn't mean it has to sound "sterile". That's just silly.

I think studio albums should be as refined as possible. Note, sterile does not equal refined. If the composition is good, it won't sound sterile - unless it wants to. Basically, reppetitive, thin compositions sound sterile.

If the aeroplane sounded good, Led Zeppelin should't have to rely on dumb luck - they should have added it in.

If you want to hear a version of the song with small flaws - that's what live albums are for!


Edited by Nathaniel607 - August 16 2010 at 05:59