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IVNORD View Drop Down
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2009 at 11:36
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

The Dow Jones

ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop.  More bad news is just around the corner, I'm afraid.
What are your predictions? Europe is likely to hit the skids
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2009 at 11:40
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

I certainly hope the economy is picking back up.  It's been really sucky for our business for quite a while. 

When I stop popping in here during the normal work day, you'll know things are picking up.
Does it mean you'll stop posting those comics? That alone warrants an improvement of the economy. Big smile
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2009 at 14:32
^ LOL

cartoon

'Khaki Pants Offensive in the Health Care War'

David Sirota, Copyright 2009 Creators.com

Friday, August 7, 2009


I'm also fairly certain that when many of you run into the Me-First, Forget-Everyone-Else Crowd, you don't feel like confronting the faux outrage. But if you do muster the impulse to engage, here's a guide to navigating the conversation:

What they will scream: We can't raise business taxes, because American businesses pay excessively high taxes!

What you should say: The General Accountability Office reports that most U.S. corporations pay zero federal income tax. Additionally, as even the Bush Treasury Department admitted, America's effective corporate tax rate is the third lowest in the industrialized world.

What they will scream: But the rich still "pay close to 60 percent of this nation's taxes!"

What you should say: Such statistics refer only to the federal income tax. When considering all of "this nation's taxes" including payroll, state and local levies, the top 5 percent pay just 38.5 percent of the taxes.

What they will scream: But 38.5 percent is disproportionately high! See? You've proved that the rich "contribute more than their share" of taxes!

What you should say: They are paying almost exactly "their share." According to the data, the wealthiest 5 percent of America pays 38.5 percent of the total taxes precisely because they make just about that share of total national income. Stripped of facts, your conversation partner will soon turn to unscientific terrain, claiming it is immoral to "steal" and "redistribute" income via taxes. Of course, he will be specifically railing on "stealing" for stuff like health care, which he insists gets "redistributed" only to the undeserving and the "lazy" (a classic code word for "minorities"). But he will also say it's OK that government sent trillions of dollars to Wall Streeters.






Edited by Slartibartfast - September 01 2009 at 22:55
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Points: 19236 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2009 at 13:34
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

^ LOL


'Khaki Pants Offensive in the Health Care War'

David Sirota, Copyright 2009 Creators.com

Friday, August 7, 2009


I'm also fairly certain that when many of you run into the Me-First, Forget-Everyone-Else Crowd, you don't feel like confronting the faux outrage. But if you do muster the impulse to engage, here's a guide to navigating the conversation:

What they will scream: We can't raise business taxes, because American businesses pay excessively high taxes!

What you should say: The General Accountability Office reports that most U.S. corporations pay zero federal income tax. Additionally, as even the Bush Treasury Department admitted, America's effective corporate tax rate is the third lowest in the industrialized world.

What they will scream: But the rich still "pay close to 60 percent of this nation's taxes!"

What you should say: Such statistics refer only to the federal income tax. When considering all of "this nation's taxes" including payroll, state and local levies, the top 5 percent pay just 38.5 percent of the taxes.

What they will scream: But 38.5 percent is disproportionately high! See? You've proved that the rich "contribute more than their share" of taxes!

What you should say: They are paying almost exactly "their share." According to the data, the wealthiest 5 percent of America pays 38.5 percent of the total taxes precisely because they make just about that share of total national income. Stripped of facts, your conversation partner will soon turn to unscientific terrain, claiming it is immoral to "steal" and "redistribute" income via taxes. Of course, he will be specifically railing on "stealing" for stuff like health care, which he insists gets "redistributed" only to the undeserving and the "lazy" (a classic code word for "minorities"). But he will also say it's OK that government sent trillions of dollars to Wall Streeters.






I'm sure that Hannity,Beck,Savage and Limbaugh would have their GOP talking points to refute all of this. And coming from a SF newspaper there's a strike against it as well.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2009 at 22:55



Edited by Slartibartfast - September 02 2009 at 15:06
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Points: 19236 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2009 at 01:12
A rumor of another bank going under and the Dow drops 180 points today.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2009 at 15:04
Sorry for reposting, but:


Some people just don't get it.



Edited by Slartibartfast - October 15 2009 at 14:27
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2009 at 11:59

History Unfolding

 Link

 Excerpt:
We learned just days ago that the Federal Reserve, which has little or no real oversight by anyone, has "loaned" two trillion 
dollars (that is $2,000,000,000,000) over the past few months, but will not tell us to whom or why or disclose the terms. 
That is our money. Yours and mine. And that is three times the $700 billion we all argued about so strenuously just this past 
September. Who has this money? Why do they have it? Why are the terms unavailable to us? Who asked for it? Who authorized it? 
I thought this was a government of "we the people," who loaned our powers to our elected leaders. Apparently not.

We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our economy.. Why?

Edited by Slartibartfast - October 15 2009 at 14:27
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2009 at 08:48
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

History Unfolding

 Link

 Excerpt:
We learned just days ago that the Federal Reserve, which has little or no real oversight by anyone, has "loaned" two trillion 
dollars (that is $2,000,000,000,000) over the past few months, but will not tell us to whom or why or disclose the terms. 
That is our money. Yours and mine. And that is three times the $700 billion we all argued about so strenuously just this past 
September. Who has this money? Why do they have it? Why are the terms unavailable to us? Who asked for it? Who authorized it? 
I thought this was a government of "we the people," who loaned our powers to our elected leaders. Apparently not.

We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our economy.. Why?
Slarti, did you read the entire thing man? The guy is insane. He compares Obama to Hitler. You didn't mean to post it here, did you?
 
As fo  the $2 trillion, this number is probably much higher and Congress should definetely watch the Fed, but one thing they did achieve is the relative stability we have today.
 
 
P.S.  Kaiser has nothing to do with it. Here's a quote from Wiki:
In April 2009, an essay comparing Barack Obama to the rise of the Third Reich was wrongly [1] attributed to Kaiser; Snopes.com [2] traced the essay to an anonymous commenter on Pat Dollard's blog.
 


Edited by IVNORD - October 05 2009 at 08:51
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Points: 104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2009 at 22:12
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:



Sorry but this is a Strawman. The problem with health care now IS the Government regulation,HMO's and Medicare.
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2009 at 15:10
Originally posted by StrengthandWisdom StrengthandWisdom wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:



Sorry but this is a Strawman. The problem with health care now IS the Government regulation,HMO's and Medicare.

Agreed. No country gives the free market an honest chance anyway. At least a truly free market.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2009 at 14:27

Quotes

"The president certainly remains popular, but his policies are becoming less and less popular. 
  Certainly the stock market hasn’t acted very well since Obama’s inauguration. As the markets 
  continue to falter, Republicans are becoming more confident in their criticisms of the president
  - some have already taken to using the phrase 'the Obama economy'." 
      -- House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Lizardick), in March    Link
 

  But when you look at the facts...

 ...it appears that line is getting higher and higher, so let's review the facts.

 Clinton took the stock market from 3500 to 13,000 or so.
 Bush crashed the 13,000 down to about 6600.
 Obama brought Bush crash from 6600 to 10,000 as of yesterday - so is the Lizardick happy?

 Quotes

"You're certainly not talking to the American people, if you’re placing any significance on the 10,000 mark. 
  People aren’t looking at the stock market in terms of putting food on the table. They want jobs, and they want them now." 
      -- House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Lizardick), yesterday,     Link
 

 It's like Boner's saying, "Sure, he hit a home run, a triple and a double, 
 and two singles but what about the other day when he struck out??
 

Quotes

"For months and months, conservatives blamed Obama for the slumping stock market. 
'Obama, since he’s elected, has tanked the markets,' Hannity said in March. Now that the Dow 
  has rebounded to over 10,000, what are the conservatives saying? On his Fox Whore show today, 
  Neil Cavuto claimed the stock market rebound is evidence of a 'Bush recovery'." 
      -- Faiz Shakir at Think Progress,     Link
 

Edited by Slartibartfast - March 05 2010 at 17:56
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2009 at 14:31
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


 Bush crashed the 13,000 down to about 6600.


 


Now Bush is to be blamed for the housing bubble?  Well, why not, I suppose.  He's blamed for everything else.

And the Dow was never at 13,000 during the Clinton administration.


Edited by Padraic - October 15 2009 at 14:34
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2010 at 17:56
"The economy goes up. The economy goes down. The economy goes up. The economy goes down…up…down…up...and NOBODY KNOWS WHY THE f**k IT DOES!"
Lewis Black
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2010 at 06:09
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 3281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2010 at 06:12

I'm sort of an atheist about economics. You can't systemise human interaction. The plan will always not take certain things into account and break at some point.
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Points: 17256 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2010 at 06:18
Slarti, no expert here, but 3 comments. 

Wonder if the chart includes war spending for Bush.

Look forward to  your updates on this list for Obama spending.Wink

The big Clinton decline, I've heard, was partially a result of defense decreases and cold war decreases started under his predecessors. 
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2010 at 13:11
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Slarti, no expert here, but 3 comments. 

Wonder if the chart includes war spending for Bush.

Look forward to  your updates on this list for Obama spending.Wink

The big Clinton decline, I've heard, was partially a result of defense decreases and cold war decreases started under his predecessors. 

Funny... If the decreases are in the blue zone, it was all really started in the red years... If the decrease happened in the red zones, it would be the reds' own achievement.... 
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Points: 17256 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2010 at 14:37

Just trying to wrap my head around the argument that Ds are more fiscally responsible than Rs.  I'd say if you take defense/war spending off the table, most people, even most Ds, would admit they want to spend far, far more on programs than Rs.  That's why I question the numbers there. 

...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2010 at 14:40
It's more prudent to look at which party has control of Congress, you know that other part of the government that actually has control over spending?

Either way, they're both addicted to deficits, but still this sort of President as Monarch mentality is not only stupid, but accounts for a lot of the power we're willing to give to him.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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