For my Libertarian friends

So you think that Muslims are more predisposed to violence than other groups of people? 

Equality 7-2521 wrote: So you think that Muslims are more predisposed to violence than other groups of people?

Well, 11 of the 15 most dangerous countries according to Forbes are either mostly Muslim or on the list because of Islamic extremists.

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Epignosis wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: So you think that Muslims are more predisposed to violence than other groups of people?  Well, 11 of the 15 most dangerous countries according to Forbes are either mostly Muslim or on the list because of Islamic extremists. Let's not commit the converse error. Just because terrorists tend to be Muslim, it is not so that Muslim's tend to be terrorists.

"We" weren't making any error.  "We" were providing data- that's all.

But since you mention this, let's go ahead and post the question: Are Muslim terrorists usually terrorists because of their religion?  I would say yes.  They don't suicide bomb buildings because they don't like the color of the wallpaper in the Men's room.

Atavachron wrote: I think Equality's point is that the people who tend to be Muslim - often by birth or not of their choice (just like many Catholics and Jews around the world) - are no more predisposed to violence by nature than anyone else.  Put another way, I'd rather have a decent person who happened to be Muslim looking after my child than a non-Muslim with psychological problems.

Obviously they are not predisposed to violence by "nature"- Islam isn't genetic.

What you've said isn't helpful in answering Pat's question (as he worded it) because you are adding other factors and variables into the subject as well as using other qualifiers.

You basically just said, "I'd rather leave my child with a nice, non-violent Muslim person than some guy running around naked with dynamite strapped to his butt."  Which doesn't address the question at all.

Atavachron wrote: if by "Pat's question" you mean the one he posted 8 posts up, then I guess my answer is easy:   No. ..and how about some Gladiators ?

Such violent tendencies!  Are you a Muslim?   



Can't tonight though.  I've got to finish up my work and go to bed. 

I'm sorry, but I am not buying the whole "Most Muslims are moderate, Islam is a religion of peace" line.I see Christians on TV constantly denouncing extremists such as the Westboro Baptist Church and making it clear that they don't represent the true beliefs of Christianity. How many Muslims do you see saying the same things about these terrorists? Personally, I have seen very, very few. The people pushing the "terrorists don't represent Islam" story are white journalists. If it's true that most Muslims don't feel represented by the terrorists, then there are only two explanations for their silence: that they tacitly agree that Western Civilization is "the great Satan" or they are afriad to speak out for fear of retaliation by terrorist groups.

In the first case, they are very bad people, in the second case they are cowards, which I'm not sure is much better. I know that there are some Muslims who have spoken out on the subject, but I have seen no evidence to convince me that these moderates are the majority.

That being said, let them build their stupid mosque.

thellama73 wrote: I'm sorry, but I am not buying the whole "Most Muslims are moderate, Islam is a religion of peace" line.I see Christians on TV constantly denouncing extremists such as the Westboro Baptist Church and making it clear that they don't represent the true beliefs of Christianity. How many Muslims do you see saying the same things about these terrorists? Personally, I have seen very, very few. The people pushing the "terrorists don't represent Islam" story are white journalists. If it's true that most Muslims don't feel represented by the terrorists, then there are only two explanations for their silence: that they tacitly agree that Western Civilization is "the great Satan" or they are afriad to speak out for fear of retaliation by terrorist groups. In the first case, they are very bad people, in the second case they are cowards, which I'm not sure is much better. I know that there are some Muslims who have spoken out on the subject, but I have seen no evidence to convince me that these moderates are the majority. That being said, let them build their stupid mosque.

how much airtime is given to moderate muslims?

thellama73 wrote: Proletariat wrote: thellama73 wrote: I'm sorry, but I am not buying the whole "Most Muslims are moderate, Islam is a religion of peace" line.I see Christians on TV constantly denouncing extremists such as the Westboro Baptist Church and making it clear that they don't represent the true beliefs of Christianity. How many Muslims do you see saying the same things about these terrorists? Personally, I have seen very, very few. The people pushing the "terrorists don't represent Islam" story are white journalists. If it's true that most Muslims don't feel represented by the terrorists, then there are only two explanations for their silence: that they tacitly agree that Western Civilization is "the great Satan" or they are afriad to speak out for fear of retaliation by terrorist groups. In the first case, they are very bad people, in the second case they are cowards, which I'm not sure is much better. I know that there are some Muslims who have spoken out on the subject, but I have seen no evidence to convince me that these moderates are the majority. That being said, let them build their stupid mosque. how much airtime is given to moderate muslims? which religion has more influence in the US and therefore would be focoused upon? as a precentage of the population in the US how many are muslim? christian? do muslims have mega churches (mosques) in the US? do muslims have several famous figureheads/celebrities?   muslims simply have verry little voice in this nation. such a small voice is hard to hear. how loudly can a tiny minority decry a segment of their same minority compared to how much a giant and imposing majority can decry a small minoraty in its mitst. your comparison is biased, simplistic, subjective. Do you think if a group of moderate Muslims approached cable news in an effort to defend their religion, they would be denied airtime? I think that's a ridiculous assertion.

True. However there are fewer such groups than moderate christian groups. not because the muslims are predominantly radical but because there are virtually no muslims in america as a precentage of the population and they also tend not to be as litterate or wealthy wich hinders the ability to form groups from which they might approach cable news.

Henry Plainview wrote: Does anybody still like the Senate?

Hello no!

And muslim/terroristic tendencies/dogmatic stuff aside

How can the right to build a mosque there be denied? Seems quite un-American.
Also, is it just a mosque? I thought it was a big muslim cultural center, or something like that.

Proletariat wrote: thellama73 wrote: Besides, even if what you say is true, I require evidence in order to believe something, and liberal news anchors repeating the claim with no way of backing it up is not evidence. i have no problems with your belief. especially given that you have no real voice in the policy of this country... your personal beliefs mean nothing to anyone except yourself. (as do mine)   however i wanted to point out the problems i saw in your argument. not that those problems necessarily make you wrong

That is certainly fair enough.