| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
manofmystery 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
|
 Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:07 |
 JJLehto wrote:
manofmystery wrote:
It's nice to have a thread where fascist, confused, and libertarian can come to discuss governance.
Got to get going to my evil, elitist game of golf. Back later |
oooooo I wonder which of the first two I am? 
And you lucky son of a gun. I love golf.
|
I believe that, like most who have attended a government diploma factory, you are just not ready to embrace a path that doesn't embrace the control of strong central authority.
Until people are able to let go of the asinine notion that the government is capable of regulating the market, and that they would/could do so to everyones benefit, then all we can do play DC-tug-of-war. What I mean by "DC tug of war" is that all we really do currently, with elections, is decide which small group of people will be babysitting us. You guys keep trying to find the cool babysitter, who let you stay up late and play video games, I'll keep trying to convince the parents (those immovable bureaucrats that actually run) that not only don't I need a babysitter but that......wait a sec, I was going to say "it's time for me to move out of the house altogether" but the government lives in my/our house, it's not the other way around. Those b*st*rds stole our house! And now they have everyone thinking that it's perfectly fine they make the rules we live by and charge us rent.
I'm tired and I'm rambling, nap time
|
 Time always wins.
|
 |
Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:15 |
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Oh yes, being a seasonal caddy is the example of a job that will take millions out of poverty. |
You completely missed his point. |
Less than you did mine. |
No, I got your point.
And manofmystery is here, so he can explain it for you.
Edited by Epignosis - August 03 2010 at 15:16
|
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:21 |
|
|
|
|
|
Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:24 |
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Oh yes, being a seasonal caddy is the example of a job that will take millions out of poverty. |
You completely missed his point. |
Less than you did mine. |
No, I got your point.And manofmystery is here, so he can explain it for you. |
Oh I know what he means. You're the one saying I don't. I just don't believe it. And made a sarcastic comment. |
So you don't believe wealthy people playing golf, going to spas, going to restaurants, going to nightclubs, hosting dinner parties, and traveling doesn't create and maintain jobs?
That's awfully naive.
|
|
|
|
manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:26 |
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Oh yes, being a seasonal caddy is the example of a job that will take millions out of poverty. |
You completely missed his point. |
Less than you did mine. |
He only missed it because you are pointless. You cannot simply use my individual job decision to make a point about poverty. I can actually afford a nice simple life on my salary, by the way. I just need to work for it. Instead of moaning and demanding the government give me the money they take from the rich I can get it directly. I don't have the delusions that my job is just as valuable as those I caddie for.
That's how the market works: When a dollar is spent by someone a dollar is made by someone else. Any interference with this process by the government corrupts the market.
Sorry T, your nation of thin people making the exact same salary regardless of their contribution to the market can not happen. I try not to get pissed off in this forum anymore but your really pushing my patience. I just hope that if you get the leaders in office you obviously want that I can get out of the country before they take me to camp, to correct me, for being too fat, or too thin, or too this, or too that.
|
Time always wins.
|
|
manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:29 |
|
|
Time always wins.
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:30 |
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Oh yes, being a seasonal caddy is the example of a job that will take millions out of poverty. |
You completely missed his point. |
Less than you did mine. |
No, I got your point.And manofmystery is here, so he can explain it for you. |
Oh I know what he means. You're the one saying I don't. I just don't believe it. And made a sarcastic comment. |
So you don't believe wealthy people playing golf, going to spas, going to restaurants, going to nightclubs, hosting dinner parties, and traveling doesn't create and maintain jobs?That's awfully naive. |
Oh no. I do. It's just that those kind of seasonal jobs are not the ones which can make poor people get closer to a good level of well-being.
By the way, these tax cuts for the rich have worked wonderfully, haven't they? Money triclkes down, exactly. One penny for
|
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:33 |
manofmystery wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Oh yes, being a seasonal caddy is the example of a job that will take millions out of poverty. |
You completely missed his point. |
Less than you did mine. |
He only missed it because you are pointless. You cannot simply use my individual job decision to make a point about poverty. I can actually afford a nice simple life on my salary, by the way. I just need to work for it. Instead of moaning and demanding the government give me the money they take from the rich I can get it directly. I don't have the delusions that my job is just as valuable as those I caddie for.
That's how the market works: When a dollar is spent by someone a dollar is made by someone else. Any interference with this process by the government corrupts the market.
Sorry T, your nation of thin people making the exact same salary regardless of their contribution to the market can not happen. I try not to get pissed off in this forum anymore but your really pushing my patience. I just hope that if you get the leaders in office you obviously want that I can get out of the country before they take me to camp, to correct me, for being too fat, or too thin, or too this, or too that. |
i don't really give a damn if you get pissed off or if I'm pushing your patience.
Of course you can't grasp the concept that regulation=/= communism. You're just as brainwashed as you say I am. You can't see anything but hell in any system which would include a government.
|
|
|
|
Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:33 |
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Oh yes, being a seasonal caddy is the example of a job that will take millions out of poverty. |
You completely missed his point. |
Less than you did mine. |
No, I got your point.And manofmystery is here, so he can explain it for you. |
Oh I know what he means. You're the one saying I don't. I just don't believe it. And made a sarcastic comment. |
So you don't believe wealthy people playing golf, going to spas, going to restaurants, going to nightclubs, hosting dinner parties, and traveling doesn't create and maintain jobs?That's awfully naive. |
Oh no. I do. It's just that those kind of seasonal jobs are not the ones which can make poor people get closer to a good level of well-being.
By the way, these tax cuts for the rich have worked wonderfully, haven't they? Money triclkes down, exactly. One penny for |
"Make poor people get closer to a good level of well-being."
And there's the fundamental difference. That's simply not what the economy does, and it never will. At least not by way of actively making it happen.
Maybe all the wealthy people should take all their money and never spend another dime of it other than what they absolutely have to. Then we'll see how far away from poverty most of us can get.
Edited by Epignosis - August 03 2010 at 15:36
|
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:36 |
Everyone should be free to believe in whatever they believe. And I believe your ideal is one which will create more problems than it would solve. Of course, not believing in a 100% free market is for you the same as absolutism. Then we can never even agree to disagree as they say.
|
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:40 |
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Oh yes, being a seasonal caddy is the example of a job that will take millions out of poverty. |
You completely missed his point. |
Less than you did mine. |
No, I got your point.And manofmystery is here, so he can explain it for you. |
Oh I know what he means. You're the one saying I don't. I just don't believe it. And made a sarcastic comment. |
So you don't believe wealthy people playing golf, going to spas, going to restaurants, going to nightclubs, hosting dinner parties, and traveling doesn't create and maintain jobs?That's awfully naive. |
Oh no. I do. It's just that those kind of seasonal jobs are not the ones which can make poor people get closer to a good level of well-being.
By the way, these tax cuts for the rich have worked wonderfully, haven't they? Money triclkes down, exactly. One penny for |
"Make poor people get closer to a good level of well-being."And there's the fundamental difference. That's simply not what the economy does, and it never will. At least not by way of actively making it happen.Maybe all the wealthy people should take all their money and never spend another dime of it other than what they absolutely have to. Then we'll see how far away from poverty most of us can get. |
oh I'm not asking that. I'm not even asking for confiscation (some extra paranoia that libertarians seem to fear from people defending regulation). Let rich people spend their money and keep it but let them pay their taxes too. I'm just opposed to eliminating all taxes for them, for sure. But you always have to think on extremes...
|
|
|
|
Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:43 |
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Oh yes, being a seasonal caddy is the example of a job that will take millions out of poverty. |
You completely missed his point. |
Less than you did mine. |
No, I got your point.And manofmystery is here, so he can explain it for you. |
Oh I know what he means. You're the one saying I don't. I just don't believe it. And made a sarcastic comment. |
So you don't believe wealthy people playing golf, going to spas, going to restaurants, going to nightclubs, hosting dinner parties, and traveling doesn't create and maintain jobs?That's awfully naive. |
Oh no. I do. It's just that those kind of seasonal jobs are not the ones which can make poor people get closer to a good level of well-being.
By the way, these tax cuts for the rich have worked wonderfully, haven't they? Money triclkes down, exactly. One penny for |
"Make poor people get closer to a good level of well-being."And there's the fundamental difference. That's simply not what the economy does, and it never will. At least not by way of actively making it happen.Maybe all the wealthy people should take all their money and never spend another dime of it other than what they absolutely have to. Then we'll see how far away from poverty most of us can get. |
oh I'm not asking that. I'm not even asking for confiscation (some extra paranoia that libertarians seem to fear from people defending regulation). Let rich people spend their money and keep it but let them pay their taxes too. I'm just opposed to eliminating all taxes for them, for sure. But you always have to think on extremes... |
How am I thinking extremes? I think we should have a federal consumption tax in place of a federal income tax. Wealthy people spend more money than poorer people do, so they will wind up paying more taxes, yet would be freer to reinvest their wealth into their businesses.
I'm surprised you're not in favor of that.
And by the way, were it not for some ambitious, wealthy, Harvard business grad, I wouldn't have any income at all. Yay rich people!
|
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:46 |
By the way, the comment that started all this was a joking comment I did on MOM's going to play golf that even included an emoticon (!?). I just said wht he probably believes we would be saying. Then he got pissed off as I pushed his patience, poor MOM, and then suddenly it appears I was proposing taking all the wealth of rich people. I don't see "trickle down" as a successful move, but of course this is equal to fascist-communism for some here.
Whate er. I have a doctor appointment now. Later on we can resume discussions without people getting pissed off when I push their patience. 
|
|
|
|
Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17335
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:49 |
I was a caddy. Great job for a teen. Rich guys who trickle down rock 
|
|
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:49 |
|
^Robert, you are thinking extremes because you pretty much imply I AM thinking extremes. I'm not in favor of taking all money off of rich people. I just oppose the opposite. Your consume tax could be a good idea (wealthy people spend more). I don't believe in not having people pay SOMETHING, that's for sure.
|
|
|
|
manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:51 |
The T wrote:
manofmystery wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Oh yes, being a seasonal caddy is the example of a job that will take millions out of poverty. |
You completely missed his point. |
Less than you did mine. |
He only missed it because you are pointless. You cannot simply use my individual job decision to make a point about poverty. I can actually afford a nice simple life on my salary, by the way. I just need to work for it. Instead of moaning and demanding the government give me the money they take from the rich I can get it directly. I don't have the delusions that my job is just as valuable as those I caddie for.
That's how the market works: When a dollar is spent by someone a dollar is made by someone else. Any interference with this process by the government corrupts the market.
Sorry T, your nation of thin people making the exact same salary regardless of their contribution to the market can not happen. I try not to get pissed off in this forum anymore but your really pushing my patience. I just hope that if you get the leaders in office you obviously want that I can get out of the country before they take me to camp, to correct me, for being too fat, or too thin, or too this, or too that. |
i don't really give a damn if you get pissed off or if I'm pushing your patience.
Of course you can't grasp the concept that regulation=/= communism. You're just as brainwashed as you say I am. You can't see anything but hell in any system which would include a government. |
I don't care that you don't care.
And if you payed attention and werent so set in your ways you would have seen no mention to communism in any of those posts. If I were brainwashed I doubt that I'd advocate a system that doesn't give anyone but myself power over myself. I will refrain from further delving into what I believe you are because, unless we lived under your ideal government, it doesn't matter how I feel about you. As I am not an anarchist I do believe that government is necessary. I just believe that it's actual role is to protect us from people like yourself.
|
Time always wins.
|
|
Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:54 |
The T wrote:
^Robert, you are thinking extremes because you pretty much imply I AM thinking extremes. I'm not in favor of taking all money off of rich people. I just oppose the opposite. Your consume tax could be a good idea (wealthy people spend more). I don't believe in not having people pay SOMETHING, that's for sure. |
You favorite higher taxes by default on higher incomes, and that's a terrible idea.
Income tax period is a terrible idea (it penalizes production).
The government isn't to take money from wealthy and redistribute it to those "in need." They may take what money is necessary (in a way that doesn't penalize production) to ensure that the rights (not the needs) of all citizens are protected.
|
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 15:59 |
Oh MOM, I've been able to talk about these things with other peole who believe the things you do. Eventually i've had confrontation, but I don't enjoy pissing people off. Well, maybe one person. .
Go rest Man. I'll never be your dreaded new Stalin. Don't get too pissed off about these conversations.
|
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 16:03 |
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
^Robert, you are thinking extremes because you pretty much imply I AM thinking extremes. I'm not in favor of taking all money off of rich people. I just oppose the opposite. Your consume tax could be a good idea (wealthy people spend more). I don't believe in not having people pay SOMETHING, that's for sure. |
You favorite higher taxes by default on higher incomes, and that's a terrible idea.Income tax period is a terrible idea (it penalizes production).The government isn't to take money from wealthy and redistribute it to those "in need." They may take what money is necessary (in a way that doesn't penalize production) to ensure that the rights (not the needs) of all citizens are protected. |
The statement about income taxes being terrible could be true. I won't argue much about that. Though such a tax is quite common everywhere. Maybe it's not the best system, I can give you that. And if it's not, I'll be happyto see it change and produce more prosperity.
The second staement is a matter of beliefs. I don't share yours. I think needs of people can be helped by the goverme t, those needs of those people in the weakest positions (poor, etc).
|
|
|
|
Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
|
Posted: August 03 2010 at 16:10 |
|
You're fond of asking us questions here, T, so I'm going to pose one to you.
You believe the government has a role in meeting the needs of people. So what constitutes a need, and how should the government meet each one?
|
|
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
For my Libertarian friends
