For my Libertarian friends

thellama73 wrote: The T wrote: thellama73 wrote: The T wrote: thellama73 wrote: Bah humbug. I didn't attend a single day of school until college, made straight A's and am now well into my master's in economics. If I can do it, given how lazy I am, then anyone can. Home schooled? Yes, sir. I have never really understood that concept. Is very alien to me. Who taught you things? What were you taught? How do you learn about things that would escape your parents (or whoever schooled you)'s knowledge? There are several different methods of homeschooling. The method I experienced is known as "unschooling" and it has generally been very hard to explain to people. Basically, no one taught me anything. My parents encouraged my interests, and if I wanted to learn something, they got me a book on it and said "if you have any questions, let me know and I'll try to help." I studied what I wanted to and when I was a teenager my parents explained what was required to go to college. "If you want to do well on the SAT, you'll need to study X, Y and Z." I wanted to go to college, so I studied those things. If I was learning something my parents had no knowledge of, and had trouble with it, they would read the book and explain it to me. I had a keen interest in reading, languages and I was pretty good at math. My sister was schooled in the same method, and had completely opposite interests. She started reading very late, and hated math. If she had been in school, she would have had a very hard time. Now she has just finished her thesis for a Master's degree in art education. I am a strong advocate of this system.

As I said my younger brother would've done great with a thing like that llama.
Honestly, a bad teacher he had really f*cked him up, and it got made worse in HS by a bad system and really just knowing giving a sh*t.
Smart kid too but the mere thought of school gets him flustered. Makes it difficult for one to attempt to get an education when that is the case. And not to get into all that psycho mumbo jumbo but I think his whole personality and outlook was molded by a few terrible teachers.

tl;dr he was a sensitive kid who got screwed up and took a long time to get over it, and I think not fully.

Epignosis wrote: So llama, are you opposed to a public education system for kids whose parents suck (or both work)?

I am. In addition to my usual taxpayers-paying-for-things-they-don't-necessarily-use objections, I think kids are overschooled these days. As a teacher myself, I see too many kids whose parents use schooling as an excuse to have virtually no contact with them. Kids need to be allowed to be kids. Let them run around and have some fun. Now, they are crammed into a windowless room all day and expected to pay attention. When they fail at this, as all kids who are not zombies will, they are given Ritalin to curb their "hyperactivity." Mandatory public education is actually a relatively recent phenomenon. Folks like Thomas Jeffeson and Ben Franklin seemed to do alright, despite its absence.

Also, there's no reason to believe that volunteer educators (as was common in the 18th century) or private classes offered to the community could not be just as effective. Sure, some kids of very bad parents will not do well, but that is the case with our current system as well, and I believe shifting the responsibilities away from teachers' unions towards parents can only improve matters.


Edited by thellama73 - July 30 2010 at 23:48

Epignosis wrote: thellama73 wrote: Epignosis wrote: So llama, are you opposed to a public education system for kids whose parents suck (or both work)? I am. In addition to my usual taxpayers-paying-for-things-they-don't-necessarily-use objections, I think kids are overschooled these days. As a teacher myself, I see too many kids whose parents use schooling as an excuse to have virtually no contact with them. Kids need to be allowed to be kids. Let them run around and have some fun. Now, they are crammed into a windowless room all day and expected to pay attention. When they fail at this, as all kids who are not zombies will, they are given Ritalin to curb their "hyperactivity." Mandatory public education is actually a relatively recent phenomenon. Folks like Thomas Jeffeson and Ben Franklin seemed to do alright, despite its absence. Also, there's no reason to believe that volunteer educators (as was common in the 18th century) or private classes offered to the community could not be just as effective. Sure, some kids of very bad parents will not do well, but that is the case with our current system as well, and I believe shifting the responsibilities away from teachers' unions towards parents can only improve matters. Sums up how I feel.

And here I was expecting another knock-down, drag-out libertarian infighting battle royale.

JJLehto wrote: ^ haha! Yes, you guys disagree so often and passionately! I may be wrong, but someone once told me that you have to be in the teachers union. Is this true? And if so...then are you llama? And does it eat you up inside

I was a teacher and was never in a union.

What about the socializing aspect of education? Do you really think is good for a child's development to grow isolated? I'm sure you don't. So how do you solve that issue? (don't tell me "I'd invite a lot of people over )

It's late and 8'm on my phone. I hope this discussion doesn't get taken too far off tomorrow so I can still comment on this strange, interesting yet for me flawed concept of homeschooling.

The T wrote: What about the socializing aspect of education? Do you really think is good for a child's development to grow isolated? I'm sure you don't. So how do you solve that issue? (don't tell me "I'd invite a lot of people over )

I can only speak from experience here: Every person I've known who was home-schooled (and I've known quite a few) was highly skilled and intelligent, and what's more, didn't fall for any of the social bullsh*t that public schools offer kids.

thellama73 wrote: JJLehto wrote: ^ haha! Yes, you guys disagree so often and passionately! I may be wrong, but someone once told me that you have to be in the teachers union. Is this true? And if so...then are you llama? And does it eat you up inside I teach music for a private school, so no. I think I would quit if they required me to join a union of any kind. Things I hate in order from most to least abhorrent goes something like: Communism Unions The Eagles Artificial Sweeteners Scorpions Pepsi (the evil antithesis to the glory of Coke) Nazis People who don't laugh at my jokes Wearing shorts Men who can grow moustaches but choose not to France

Well, I wont disagree with some of those things. We're not so different...llama
And France? Sheesh, how cliche American!
Why do you hate France? Because the government was telling people to do so?

And private would be different, though Rob said no as well.
Suppose I was lied to a teacher I had said you had to join the teachers union, and he was a decently conservative guy so didn't think he was BS'ng me


Edited by JJLehto - July 31 2010 at 00:19

JJLehto wrote: Why do you hate France?

Just their general attitude.

^I suggest you don't take me too seriously on this, given the other items on my list.