For my Libertarian friends

stonebeard wrote: Epignosis wrote: stonebeard wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Dean wrote: ^ Intent. But why does that make the victim anymore noble? I think it's eminently obvious that taking up a risky line of work to serve society is a noble thing to do. But of course, not very many police officers have this intent I imagine when joining the force. Which is why not all military people should be congratulated when you just know some of them really wanted to shoot stuff, not serve the country. Let alone the tenuous relationship of "serving" the country fighting people in caves across the world. But a police man in your own neighborhood? it's a little clearer sometimes. I grew up in Fayetteville, NC, next door to Fort Bragg.  I've known hundreds of soldiers and spoken with hundreds of vets, and as far as I can surmise, not one of them joined up because they "really wanted to shoot stuff." Also, those who attempt to join the military for dubious reasons almost never make it through basic training. I have a friend (hmm) in the military (or was he discharged?) who said some crazy ass stuff and apparently still got in. And then there were the drug stories, or story, I suppose. It might have been on leave, though. Either way oh my god you've never heard Apocalypse Now stuff like this before. Damn. There's one "almost never" who got through.

Well, duh... That's why it's almost never and not never. 

Equality 7-2521 wrote: stonebeard wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Dean wrote: ^ Intent. But why does that make the victim anymore noble? I think it's eminently obvious that taking up a risky line of work to serve society is a noble thing to do. But of course, not very many police officers have this intent I imagine when joining the force. Which is why not all military people should be congratulated when you just know some of them really wanted to shoot stuff, not serve the country. Let alone the tenuous relationship of "serving" the country fighting people in caves across the world. But a police man in your own neighborhood? it's a little clearer sometimes. A construction worker serves the community also. Nobody is answering my question.

Epignosis wrote: A construction worker who builds an office building isn't providing an inherently dangerous public service. If there were no one to build that office building, it just wouldn't get built. If there were no one to fend off the hordes who would visit evil upon us, then it would be me, my wife, and my children doing it.  And I'm so very grateful that we don't have to do it. That's why serving in the military is an honorable position, and that's why I regard them in the highest.

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Epignosis wrote: A construction worker who builds an office building isn't providing an inherently dangerous public service. If there were no one to build that office building, it just wouldn't get built. If there were no one to fend off the hordes who would visit evil upon us, then it would be me, my wife, and my children doing it.  And I'm so very grateful that we don't have to do it. That's why serving in the military is an honorable position, and that's why I regard them in the highest. It would be you, your wife, and your children doing every other service which I'm sure you are grateful you don't have to do.

We would not have to build an office building for a private corporation- a society doesn't fall apart without office buildings.

Society would fall apart without defense from evil.

I'm really surprised you don't get this.

Epignosis wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Epignosis wrote: A construction worker who builds an office building isn't providing an inherently dangerous public service. If there were no one to build that office building, it just wouldn't get built. If there were no one to fend off the hordes who would visit evil upon us, then it would be me, my wife, and my children doing it.  And I'm so very grateful that we don't have to do it. That's why serving in the military is an honorable position, and that's why I regard them in the highest. It would be you, your wife, and your children doing every other service which I'm sure you are grateful you don't have to do. We would not have to build an office building for a private corporation- a society doesn't fall apart without office buildings. Society would fall apart without defense from evil. I'm really surprised you don't get this.

Society would fall apart without all the other amenities that all other jobs provide.

My point isn't even that the job is more respectable. Even if it is there's no reason the death is more saddening. Cops know the dangers of their job and weigh them against their compensation just like everybody else.

If a cops dies we all have to mourn the national tragedy. If a guy gets hit by a train crossing the tracks we say "He knew what could happen when he walked on the tracks."

Epignosis wrote: I grew up in Fayetteville, NC, next door to Fort Bragg.  I've known hundreds of soldiers and spoken with hundreds of vets, and as far as I can surmise, not one of them joined up because they "really wanted to shoot stuff." Also, those who attempt to join the military for dubious reasons almost never make it through basic training.

My experience with Fayetteville, NC involved doing surveys of public housing units for renovations.  Had my first strip club experience on the first trip up.

Epignosis wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: I grew up in Fayetteville, NC, next door to Fort Bragg.  I've known hundreds of soldiers and spoken with hundreds of vets, and as far as I can surmise, not one of them joined up because they "really wanted to shoot stuff." Also, those who attempt to join the military for dubious reasons almost never make it through basic training. My experience with Fayetteville, NC involved doing surveys of public housing units for renovations.  Had my first strip club experience on the first trip up. Now see, according to Pat, if no one had been willing to do the stripping, me, my wife and my children would have had to disrobe for dollar bills!  If we didn't society would collapse!

The straw man has been defeated!!!!

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Epignosis wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: I grew up in Fayetteville, NC, next door to Fort Bragg.  I've known hundreds of soldiers and spoken with hundreds of vets, and as far as I can surmise, not one of them joined up because they "really wanted to shoot stuff." Also, those who attempt to join the military for dubious reasons almost never make it through basic training. My experience with Fayetteville, NC involved doing surveys of public housing units for renovations.  Had my first strip club experience on the first trip up. Now see, according to Pat, if no one had been willing to do the stripping, me, my wife and my children would have had to disrobe for dollar bills!  If we didn't society would collapse!  The straw man has been defeated!!!!

No straw man- your words with the key phrases emphasize:

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Society would fall apart without all the other amenities that all other jobs provide.

Surely "all other jobs" include strippers, and surely "all the other amenities" includes exposed titties.

Epignosis wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Epignosis wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: I grew up in Fayetteville, NC, next door to Fort Bragg.  I've known hundreds of soldiers and spoken with hundreds of vets, and as far as I can surmise, not one of them joined up because they "really wanted to shoot stuff." Also, those who attempt to join the military for dubious reasons almost never make it through basic training. My experience with Fayetteville, NC involved doing surveys of public housing units for renovations.  Had my first strip club experience on the first trip up. Now see, according to Pat, if no one had been willing to do the stripping, me, my wife and my children would have had to disrobe for dollar bills!  If we didn't society would collapse!  The straw man has been defeated!!!! No straw man- your words with the key phrases emphasize: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Society would fall apart without all the other amenities that all other jobs provide. Surely "all other jobs" include strippers, and surely "all the other amenities" includes exposed titties.

I meant that in the sense of the aggregate.

I just hope you mourn the death of the next body guard who's life is taken. The common folk's lives don't matter as much as though selfless selfless people.

Epignosis wrote: Surely "all other jobs" include strippers, and surely "all the other amenities" includes exposed titties.

And I suppose you're expecting beer with those...

^ and the club we used to go to years ago served $1 soft-shell tacos.  The joke aside, they were pretty damn good with multiple pitchers of beer.