What was the first Prog Album?

octopus-4 wrote: Logan wrote: octopus-4 wrote: Logan wrote: I don't know which was the first, and it depends what one means by Prog, but I just want to mention that I consider David Axelrod's 1968 album, Song of Innocence, to be a kind of Prog (as PA music goes), and I love it. I tried to suggest Electric Prunes for inclusion and they were rejected. Where's the border between Psychedelia and Prog? And I supported the Electric Prunes for addition.  The border is subjective, and I don't think there is a clear border.  Not everyone supported Axelrod, and it took some pushing/ time and quite a lot of effort to make the case/ decide category, but I'm grateful to the guys in Crossover for taking him on (not just because he's one of my favourite artists). Yes, I remember your support. Having suggested a number of artists I have found that additions in prog-metal are easier than in other subgenres...however I don't want to start a polemic.  What I mean is that if Psychedelia is prog, the first prog album could be The Piper at the gates of Dawn. If not, Moody Blues are a good compromise. ItCock is surely the first in its subgenre, the most distant from the late 60s pop-rock or blues revival.  In a previous reply I have mentioned Carl Orff. I was partially joking, but I think that Carmina Burana fits well in some of the definitions of prog.

I wouldn't say that psychedelia is prog, but a lot of it can be considered prog.  I don't even like the term to describe the disparate music in PA -- as I think of "prog umbrella music", but I digress.

You make good albums points.  I DO consider The Piper at the Gates of Dawn to be a kind of Prog (as in progressive rock), though, others don't think of it as true Prog.  To some, a certain symphonic sound typifies Prog.  I don't think of In the Court... as the first or, even really the first of its kind, though it may have progressed farther from late 60's pop and blues revival music. Procul Harem has early music that I consider to be prog.  Anyway, sorry, I'm not adding anything nutritious to your points.

Carmina Burana, or at least "O Fortuna" was influential to Prog artists and has similarities.  Of course it's not Prog in that it's not progressive rock.  A part of the Prog movement, of course, was incorporating other genres (such as Academic Music and jazz) into a  rock framework.  Often they would actually lift music from composers rather than merely emulating or being influenced by the style.

Incidentally, for me prog mostly equals music that is rock-based that blend genres, and progresses from typical rock conventions (or expands on the possibilities of what rock can be).

What the first true prog album is really does depend on one's working prog definition.  I like to think that we're going to discover much earlier rock-based, or rock-related music, that will comfortably sit alongside albums represented as Prog by PA's various category standards.

You guys crack me up.   Elvis!   Dylan   J    I see both the humor and truth in that stuff.   But I do appreciate seeing more serious answers.   I’m going to buy some of these suggestions to see if I can argue that ITCOTKC isn’t the answer.  

 

Logan, you’re spot on with “What the first true prog album is really does depend on one's working prog definition.”

 

I personally, have a broader view of Prog than my friend.  The Stack of CDs that I keep in my “Progressive Rock Collection” is far more expansive than the strict paradigm I’m putting on it for the sake of this discussion.   In it I keep early Soft Machine, Pipers, Procol, early Zappa,  Supertramp, Kate Bush, Tortoise, Neu, Anathema, Traffic, Moody’s and many other bands that don’t fall within the strict parameters my friend puts on Prog.  In fact, that leads to a separate argument I’ve had with him about the definition of Prog.  For example, he vehemently denies that Pink Floyd was never “Prog” because they weren’t virtuosic enough.   Which I think is pure crap. 

 

Still, within his definition of Prog Rock, ITCOTCK was the first.  Although I don’t agree with that strict of a parameter on the label “Prog Rock”, labels aside, he does have a point that there is a style and sound to ITCOTCK that I’ve not heard in other albums prior to its release.   Again, labels aside, I do hear a clean break or jump forward between ITCOTCK and prior releases.   Again "you know it when you hear it" Gentle Giant, Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson style rock that is post- psych, arty or jazzy.   Composed  Rock, different sections or even songs strung together, played with virtuosity, with some long instrumental passages and long trade-offs and some improv breaks.   

 

I need to find the closest album to “that” that came out before ITCOTCK.  Thanks to those that gave me some great suggestions, I’ll check them out (and keep them coming).  And I also appreciate others who agree with my friend that ITCOTCK is really the first of “that” style.   All the other perspectives and jokes are interesting too.  Thanks.

himtroy wrote: People only say it's not progressive because theres vocals throughout and it's not dark sounding.

himtroy wrote: Moody Blues-Days of Future Passed undeniably beat ITCOTCK to the punch.  People only say it's not progressive because theres vocals throughout and it's not dark sounding.

himtroy, I'm playing Days of Future as I type.  I too keep in my Prog collection.  The use of symphony and suite certainly was ground breaking and progressive.  Same with some of the compositions.   But the songs are slow and beautiful, not with the intricate composed (and improvised) workouts of more modern Prog.  There isn't the speed and virtuosity in drums, guitar, sax and keys that you find on ITCOTCK.   Possibly my question shouldn't be so much whats the first Prog album, but is there anything that sounds somewhat similar to KC's first album that came before it?  

VanVanVan wrote: himtroy wrote: Moody Blues-Days of Future Passed undeniably beat ITCOTCK to the punch.  People only say it's not progressive because theres vocals throughout and it's not dark sounding. People say things aren't progressive because there are vocals?

^Wrong topic?

The first Prog album was the first album ever released, which I don't know what is it, but I do know that it is Prog for being the first album.

The Quiet One wrote: The first Prog album was the first album ever released, which I don't know what is it, but I do know that it is Prog for being the first album.

It was a stone-age record when they still put the rock, literally, in rock and roll.  Okay, at least there are certain archaeological records which are not really pertinent, but no LPs of which I am aware; however, some might surmise that certain stone age rock bands pressed records using wooly mammoth dung.  It's a hypothesis, anyway, and not a good one.

As for the first recording of music, the oldest one I'm aware of was one from 1860 (Claire de la Lune), unfortunately, it isn't Prog (Progressive Rock).