For my Libertarian friends

The T wrote: I wish it was possible to give libertarians a state, let's say texas (one with resources so they have a shot at success) and let them run it like they would the country, abolishing all those institutions and regulations and all of what they want to eliminate. If they succeeded and no collapse ensues, only then could society afford to embark in such a dangerous idea. But as things are now, libertarianism would end up killing, without wanting to, many many dreams, wishes, hopes, families, lives, and yes, even people. It's too radical a concept to be allowed to prosper overnight...

Society can't afford to embark on the path we're on now. The country is bankrupt. Most of the Western world is bankrupt. Things are going to change regardless of whether you want them to or not. No amount of shiny, faux-charitable rhetoric is going to change that.

If you like at our nation's history. The state of things as they are and as they are progressing are actually the radical ones. If you want to look at the prosperity which would be brought on my a free market, you need only look to when the market was freer. You're too hung up on the idea of absolute freedom.

If you wish to observe the state of an object at absolute zero, you can get a pretty good idea of how the object will be by observing ever decreasing temperatures and draw a conclusion without ever observing the absolute zero state. We are able to do that.

You say that it'll destroy dreams, wishes, blah blah blah blah without anything to back  up your claims. Whose dreams will it destroy? What families? I'm anticipating your answers, and I already have a pretty good idea of the fallacies it will be propped up by.

EDIT: One of the things that gets to me so worked up is the current state of the country. I could see if things in the economic and social realms were great that people would be so reluctant to even consider Libertarian ideas, but clearly there are deep deep issues with our economy and government's lack of rights considerations. People who think you can have social freedom without economic freedom (or its converse) are just fools.


Edited by Equality 7-2521 - July 24 2010 at 11:45

I wish it was possible to give libertarians a state, let's say texas (one with resources so they have a shot at success) and let them run it like they would the country, abolishing all those institutions and regulations and all of what they want to eliminate. If they succeeded and no collapse ensues, only then could society afford to embark in such a dangerous idea. But as things are now, libertarianism would end up killing, without wanting to, many many dreams, wishes, hopes, families, lives, and yes, even people. It's too radical a concept to be allowed to prosper overnight...

Edited by The T - July 24 2010 at 11:22

JJLehto wrote: Henry Plainview wrote: One of my teachers in high school was a super libertarian, he printed out articles from Lew Rockwell and read them in class and everything (he wasn't a very good teacher). He got a DUI because he refused a breathalyzer and ended up living with another one of the teachers for 6 months so he could get a ride to school. It was pretty funny. I guess he learned his lesson because next time he just shut up and took his speeding ticket.  llama, you're never going to take away my NPR and PBS! And if you would seriously completely eliminate unemployment benefits if you were king you might be a bad person. :/ Not said be Me or T! I know you are really libertarian llama but I did think your post was a bit of a joke. Most people I know are willing to grant at least "the safety net" I mean NO unemployment benefits at all? Whatsoever?

thellama73 wrote: Also, why has no one addressed the issue of privatized unemployment insurance that I brought up? Why couldn't it work the same as fire insurance or life insurance?

Nice in theory, but people who are just scraping to get by don't have money to spare for insurance.  Even if you repealed mandated employer financed unemployment insurance there's no guarantee that the employees would see that money added to their wages anyway.

I'd like to add that the Libertarian first priority should be drug legalization that way everyone will be messed up enough to vote for them.


Edited by Slartibartfast - July 24 2010 at 08:40

We've already talked about unemployment insurance and why I think it's a bad idea for the government to be involved. Just look back a few pages. And yes, I might be a bad person, but in fact I'm not.

EDIT: I thought I'd elaborate a little bit more. I have worked several jobs for very low wages in which many of my coworkers were quite poor. In all cases, they squandered what little money they had on junk rather than trying to improve their station. When the record store where I worked went out of business, nearly all of my coworkers were actually excited about going on welfare. They were happy that they were going to be able to get money without having to work for it. I spoke to one of these people a year later, and she was living on her welfare check and had not even started looking for a job, nor was she planning to until the benefits ran out.

Now I know that my experience does not represent all people, and that there are many hard working folks who just need a hand. However, it is my sincerely held belief that the more the government tries to protect people from poverty, the more people will be lazy, complacent and have a sense of entitlement.

In the absence of government welfare, friends, neighbors and relatives would be forced to maintain strong ties with each other for mutual protection in case of hard luck. I think this would be good for society in general, and that we have become altogether too isolated from one another. Furthermore, such a system would refuse to support anyone it saw as freeloading. That's my position, and if you think it makes me a bad person, I can live with that.

Also, why has no one addressed the issue of privatized unemployment insurance that I brought up? Why couldn't it work the same as fire insurance or life insurance?


Edited by thellama73 - July 24 2010 at 07:39

thellama73 wrote: Once I succeed in abolishing the department of education, the IRS, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Obamacare, the post office, PBS, NPR, Agriculture subsidies, Amtrak subsidies, corporate welfare/handouts/bailouts, unemployment benefits, affirmative action and most (if not all) regulations on private business, then I will turn my attention to legalizing drugs. P.S. We are only one page behind the Atheism vs. Theism thread. I bet we can pass them if we all work together!

Some of the worst ideas ever.

Been watching Penn & Teller BS on youtube for a while, (thanks Anton!)

May be crazy libertarian f*cks but those guys speak a lot of truth.
Their episodes on violent video games and illegal immigration were pure brilliance.
And I only wish I had the ability to troll on a scale that they do


Edited by JJLehto - July 24 2010 at 02:54

Sounds like a good time. Too bad people don't think like that anymore.

thellama73 wrote: Once I succeed in abolishing the department of education, the IRS, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Obamacare, the post office, PBS, NPR, Agriculture subsidies, Amtrak subsidies, corporate welfare/handouts/bailouts, unemployment benefits, affirmative action and most (if not all) regulations on private business, then I will turn my attention to legalizing drugs. P.S. We are only one page behind the Atheism vs. Theism thread. I bet we can pass them if we all work together!

JJLehto wrote: OR no one has warmed up to my idea of arming the poor?

Are the poor not armed now?

S**t and all this time I could have been buying my crack right from the source.