French approve ban on burqas...

That's not strictly accurate and it may depend on the countries.

Yesterday, I was looking an emission about the N'drangheta - the Calabrese mafia (don't worry, there's a link with this thread). The animator asked to a specialist (I don't remember if he was a policeman or a criminologist) if the Mafias were as strong in France, especially in Provence, as in Italy. The said specialist explained that the N'drangheta was more established in the Italian communities of Germany than in the Italian communities of France.

One would ask why? Well, simple: the Italian immigrants found easier to mix in the French society than in any other European country. The old structures of allegiance to the bosses of the N'drangheta vanished with the integration of the immigrants.
Maybe the same things happen with the religions? In a country where immigrants are welcome and well integrated, the descendants (children, grandchildren) are more likely to drop the customs and traditions of their parents.
In France, most of the people seen as "muslims" are from Northern African origin (I'm not sure how to translate "Maghrébin" in English) and the percentage of them really practising Islam is rather low (less thant the half!).

It's interesting to know that some French muftis or imams are in favor of the law against the burqa/niqab. On one hand, we have pure loonies (quite lonely) swearing they are fond of Al Qaeda; on the other hand, we have people trying to conciliate their so-called "arabic-muslim roots" with their belonging to the French community.
After all, if I saw some young women with veils, I never saw any of the 367 women said to wear this strange and uncomfortable outfit. And most of the women from Algerian, Tunisian or Morrocan origins I have met and meet on a daily basis, would never go out with a scarf. So, a niqab...

Mr ProgFreak wrote: aginor wrote: and muslims in Europe tends to be more conservative and stick to old strickt trafitions, those that  are not followed in muslim countries, the Pakistanis in Norway are more strickt about thier faith then their "cuisins" in the homeland. I think it can go both ways - they either become more liberal or more strict. I guess that it mainly depends on how well they are integrated in our society ... and sadly that usually depends mostly on the Muslims, at least as far as I've seen. They're often not very cooperative when it comes to integration. In a way the burqa can be seen as the ultimate tool to show outsiders that integration is not wanted.

No, it depends on both sides.
Just like I wrote a bit higher, just above you.

About the burqa, I have read two days ago an interesting article on the website of French newspaper Le Nouvel Observateur claiming that wearing the burqa is to be interpretated as a form of heremetism - without the rules of your average convent.
As I said, it's an interesting point of view, but I still have doubts and interrogations about it. After all, the women wearing niqabs still go outside and have contacts everyday with the rest of society.

I can believe they're looking for a spiritual experience, but they become "faith exhibitionists", something which appears to me as contradictory with the usual view on heremetism.

CPicard wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: aginor wrote: and muslims in Europe tends to be more conservative and stick to old strickt trafitions, those that  are not followed in muslim countries, the Pakistanis in Norway are more strickt about thier faith then their "cuisins" in the homeland. I think it can go both ways - they either become more liberal or more strict. I guess that it mainly depends on how well they are integrated in our society ... and sadly that usually depends mostly on the Muslims, at least as far as I've seen. They're often not very cooperative when it comes to integration. In a way the burqa can be seen as the ultimate tool to show outsiders that integration is not wanted. No, it depends on both sides. Just like I wrote a bit higher, just above you. About the burqa, I have read two days ago an interesting article on the website of French newspaper Le Nouvel Observateur claiming that wearing the burqa is to be interpretated as a form of heremetism - without the rules of your average convent. As I said, it's an interesting point of view, but I still have doubts and interrogations about it. After all, the women wearing niqabs still go outside and have contacts everyday with the rest of society. I can believe they're looking for a spiritual experience, but they become "faith exhibitionists", something which appears to me as contradictory with the usual view on heremetism.

interesting point here. Integration is indeed part of the debate

Actually 4chan and their elite group Anonymous act almost exclusively in grey areas. For example that thing where they turned up to virtual communities all with avatars that looked like Samuel Jackson in Pulp Fiction and told users to get out because the site had AIDS. Now this sort of disruptive and anti-social behaviour could be illegal but actually isn't because as we all know the development of the internet far outstripped the development of the accompanying legislation and probably always will.

Textbook wrote: Actually 4chan and their elite group Anonymous act almost exclusively in grey areas. For example that thing where they turned up to virtual communities all with avatars that looked like Samuel Jackson in Pulp Fiction and told users to get out because the site had AIDS. Now this sort of disruptive and anti-social behaviour could be illegal but actually isn't because as we all know the development of the internet far outstripped the development of the accompanying legislation and probably always will. There's a proposal that all new technology should be passed before a legal committee before being presented to the public to reverse this situation but I don't think anyone really wants it.

What is this? I don't even....



but jokes aside. What?
never heard elite and anonymous used in the same sentence before

Henry Plainview wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote:   People think the same thing about 4chan, The Grapes of Wrath, Eyes Wide Shut. I don't know. I just can't empower government bullies with such abandon  That's media, though, it's completely different from behavior. And almost everything that 4chan is infamous for is already illegal so that's an especially bad example. :P

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Henry Plainview wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote:   People think the same thing about 4chan, The Grapes of Wrath, Eyes Wide Shut. I don't know. I just can't empower government bullies with such abandon  That's media, though, it's completely different from behavior. And almost everything that 4chan is infamous for is already illegal so that's an especially bad example. :P If you're going to say that way you dress is behavior you can just as easily say those items are behavior.

Yes, but we were talking about drugs. ;-)

AIDS in the pool is but one of the things 4chan has done, most of them are very clearly harassment (they're just too time-consuming to trace) or breaking some sort of copyright law.

How about burkinis?

We were talking about drugs and I missed it!?
Damn, should've started following this thread again