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Ivan_Melgar_M 
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 Posted: July 23 2010 at 11:47 |
 Slartibartfast wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
PS: Remember I'm very god finding quotes. |
Did you run out of "o"s or something? 
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 Now I have turned into a blaspheme Corrected Starti. As I told yesterday, I have a severe case of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome in the right hand and sometimes I have troubles repeating a letter or even typing some..
It hurts a lot, and the -2° degrees yesterday's night in Cuzco, don't help.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 23 2010 at 11:50
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 11:53 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
PS: Remember I'm very god finding quotes. |
Did you run out of "o"s or something?
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Now I have turned into a blaspheme
Corrected Starti. As I told yesterday, I have a severe case of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome in the right hand and sometimes I have troubles repeating a letter or even typing some..
It hurts a lot, and the -2° degrees yesterday's night in Cuzco, don't help.
Iván |
You certainly have my sympathies for that. I've been using computers for most of my life and haven't experienced that malady. And as I've been saying, if you're going to commit a typo, best it be an amusing one. You're a lawyer though aren't you? Don't you have a staff of paralegals to make your typos for you? 
Edited by Slartibartfast - July 23 2010 at 11:56
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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timothy leary
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:04 |
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Is there any sense in typing out a really long post in the circle game here, how about just copy and paste all the dogma and be done with it
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:04 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
You're a lawyer though aren't you? Don't you have a staff of paralegals to make your typos for you?
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I have a secretary that's as useful as a motorcycle ashtray with the grammar and the student making his legal training with me, is in the court all day.
Plus I only trust myself when writing a legal document, if the trainee ruins it, I loose the client.
But the funny thing is that it got worst for using the Deluxe Pac Man, seems that the excesive use of the middle finger (Up and down arrows, not the sign ) has damaged more the bone and muscle.
It will get better (always does), but I had to delete the game, and write with only the index finger of the right hand, and will take some weeks.
Iván
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:06 |
timothy leary wrote:
Is there any sense in typing out a really long post in the circle game here, how about just copy and paste all the dogma and be done with it |
If some people don't get it after an explanation, imagine only copying the dogma.
Plus I like the debate. 
Ivan
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Mr ProgFreak
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:10 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
I will not lie to you - which seems to be your idea of tolerance. I will let you practice your religion, but when you come to this thread, which should be an open forum for discussions about religion and atheism, and then attack people for speaking their mind, then it's *you* who are out of line.
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And if you could....Would you ban religion?
Iván
PS: Remember I'm very good finding quotes. |
If you want to go through all these threads again - be my guest, it's your time. I don't think that "banning" religion would solve anything. Forbidding people to follow a religion would essentially mean telling them what to think and what not to think, that's totalitarian and of course a religion and deeply dogmatic. I would be glad if there was a way to simply make religion go away - but I don't think there is. So the best I can do is criticize it. I'm sure that that won't make anyone convert to Atheism, but on the other hand I won't lie to people, pretending not to care about what they believe.
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Mr ProgFreak
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:16 |
jampa17 wrote:
If you came to a public site and said that things, you are being disrespectful. If you don't understand that those things are sacred for us, then you are not taking the chance to understand us, to flow with it. That is an attack.
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I understand that these things are sacred to you - but that doesn't mean anything in an open discussion about religions. If you cannot stand critical statements about your sacred doctrines, you shouldn't join this discussion - it's as simple as that.
jampa17 wrote:
Tolerance is I don't f*ck with you and you don't f*ck with me or the things are important to me. You proved once again that you are not tolerant. It's not about lie, it's about *respect* each others ideas, behaivors or believings. You are disrespectful with faith and that's your problem. You just can't put in anybodies shoes and try to understand others feelings.
I thought we could argue about something. Now I know everything we said to you is waste our words... |
If I was as "respectful" of your beliefs as you seem to want me to be, we couldn't discuss anything ... I'd say "I'm an Atheist", you'd say "I'm a Catholic", and that would be the end of the discussion. Honestly, to hell with political correctness. 
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:21 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I have a secretary that's as useful as a motorcycle ashtray with the grammar and the student making his legal training with me, is in the court all day.
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That's a good one.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Mr ProgFreak
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:22 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
The point is that we respect your disbelief, but again that's beyond your understanding.
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I understand that very well - I just don't care much for this kind of "respect". I'd rather hear your honest opinion about Atheism ... let's say I ask you to become an Atheist today. Would you do that - and if not, why? Even with all your tolerance, respect and "we're all the same anyway" ... there must be reasons why you're not an Atheist but a Catholic, and since it affects your life in a profound way, I would think it should be good reasons.
Iván wrote:
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
Some proof would be nice, instead of circular references within Catholic documents or scripture. I know that you don't have proof, what's annoying me is that you keep presenting this stuff like it could possibly mean anything to non-Catholics.
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Mike, you keep presenting offensive videos as if they meant something to us, accept it or not, all this threads are to try to convert us to your own particular form of being atheist.
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I find these videos entertaining - and I don't expect any "conversions" to occur in these threads. And please, speak only for yourself. I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one who finds some of them entertaining.
Iván wrote:
Textbook wrote:
Good example is the "ex cathedra" documents. The idea seems to be that any document with the linguistic term "ex cathedra" applied to it is magically true because this phrase "ex cathedra" has a special truth conferring power. But of course this just bounces off a non-believer, despite it being used here as though it's some sort of trump card.
"I'm sorry, you can't call ex cathedra announcements PR."
"But I don't believe in the ex cathedra authority so I can."
"No actually you can't because they have the ex cathedra authority." |
You are very clever telling people that I'm trying to convince you that the documents "Ex Cathedra" are a proof of divinity or something.
No, I know you don't believe in them, but you are questioning our coherence and writing untrue facts about the things we believe in.
This documents and photos only prove the coherence between what we say, how we act and what is in our doctrine, a proof that there is no contradiction between what we say and what we belief in.
You don't believe in the absolute validity of an "Ex Cathedra" document, but it means a lot for us and if you say we discriminate from salvation those persons who are not Catholics, I proved you that this is false, because an official document of the church is an evidence that we believe that a member of any religion can be saved.
I'm not trying to convince you that this person will go to heaven or even that there exists a heaven, but our doctrine is an evidence that we believe anybody can be safe, and that's all I can proof you.
I you say, there is no salvation, I can't give you an evidence of it's existence, but if you say "Catholics condemn all the other religions to hell", I can give you solid evidence that we believe that anybody could reach salvation
In the same way, photos I posted don't prove that the Pope, Dalai Lama, Rabbi and Archbishop of Canterbury are divine or something soimilar, this photos only prove that they are head of their churches (not sure about the Rabbi) and that there's tolerance between them.
Textbook wrote:
It would be interesting to see what a Catholic would do if an ex cathedra announcement stated that the sky was orange. That it never would is irrelevant- we are testing the depths of faith here. There are two choices:)
11)Disagree with it demonstrating that the faith is not absolute and that you will only go along with the church until it says something you're not comfortable with.
ii) Agree and demonstrate mental illness.
There is the third "escape route" where the believer says "I wouldn't know how I would react until it happened" but I think most people would suspect this of being avoidance |
About your statement of the Pope declaring in an "Ex Cathedra" document that the sky is orange, how can I answer you withjout being rure...Well I can't, so I'll be honest, it's pure bull sh!t. 
Seems I have lost my time explaining you about this documents, as I said before: The Pope can only write "Ex Cathedra" documents about issues of faith and doctrine, his opinion about the color of the sky or who will be world champion in 2014, are personal opinions as the ones of any of us, and we don't have to believe them.
If the Pope wrote an article saying "Germany will be World Champion", I could write another one saying, No, I believe Brazil is local and they will win and I wouldn't be in fault or excommunicated, because this papal article would be an opinion of a German fan and nothing more.But if he declares that X person is a saint, we must believe in this, because it's an "Ex Cathedra" documentn on issues of doctrine and faith.
I hope that after many attempts you understand this and won't question me again about something I explained several times.
Iván |
And you're wondering why you're having carpal tunnel syndrome ...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:28 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
I would be glad if there was a way to simply make religion go away - .
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There goes your tolerance.
But you haven't answered my question
If you had the power to end with religion...Would you do it?
Iván
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:33 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
I understand that very well - I just don't care much for this kind of "respect". I'd rather hear your honest opinion about Atheism ... let's say I ask you to become an Atheist today. Would you do that - and if not, why? Even with all your tolerance, respect and "we're all the same anyway" ... there must be reasons why you're not an Atheist but a Catholic, and since it affects your life in a profound way, I would think it should be good reasons. |
You know I wouldn't become an atheist because I believe in God, but in no way I wish there was a way to vanish atheism, Protestantism, Islam, Judaism or Buddhism, plurality of ideas and beliefs is good.
I respect yourdisbelief mostly for me than for you, it's the tolerance I been taught.
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
I find these videos entertaining - and I don't expect any "conversions" to occur in these threads. And please, speak only for yourself. I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one who finds some of them entertaining.[(/QUOTE]
I'm sure you would love to convert us, but your first priority is to attack and humiliate us to feel superuior. [QUOTE=Mr ProgFreak] And you're wondering why you're having carpal tunnel syndrome ... |
Yes, I know, but it's mostly for that stupid game.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 23 2010 at 12:41
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Mr ProgFreak
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:34 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
I would be glad if there was a way to simply make religion go away - .
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There goes your tolerance.
But you haven't answered my question
If you had the power to end with religion...Would you do it?
Iván |
You'll have to be more precise in what you mean by "end with religion". Like I said in my reply (in the sentences that you edited out). And yes, it matters.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:39 |
Yur answer is clear Mike:
| I would be glad if there was a way to simply make religion go away - but I don't think there is |
Complete quote, in other words...Yes I would make Religion go away, but i can't.
So you are intolerant but powerless.
Iván
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Mr ProgFreak
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:39 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
I understand that very well - I just don't care much for this kind of "respect". I'd rather hear your honest opinion about Atheism ... let's say I ask you to become an Atheist today. Would you do that - and if not, why? Even with all your tolerance, respect and "we're all the same anyway" ... there must be reasons why you're not an Atheist but a Catholic, and since it affects your life in a profound way, I would think it should be good reasons. |
You know I wouldn't become an atheist because I believe in God, but neither I wish there was a way to vanish atheism, Protestantism, Islam, Judaism or Buddhism, plurality of ideas and beliefs is good.
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I'm all for pluralism, but I'm not sure whether Islam fits in there, given its built in tendency to suppress other religions (it's part of the sharia).
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Mr ProgFreak
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:41 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Yur answer is clear Mike:
| I would be glad if there was a way to simply make religion go away - but I don't think there is |
Complete quote, in other words...Yes I would make Religion go away, but i can't.
So you are intolerant but powerless.
Iván
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I knew it - offer your hand to a lawyer, and off goes the arm. What I said was that I wouldn't want to forbid religion. You'll twist and turn it again so that it says what you'd want me to say, but fortunately you can't edit my post, so people can see what you're doing.
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thellama73
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:45 |
You know it's time for a thread to end when Mike starts appearing more sympathetic than his detractors. Seriously though, I think your method of discussion has improved a lot in the last fifty pages. THe early posts came across as insulting, but lately you've seemed pretty reasonable, whereas BaldJean/Freide and Ivan are appearing increasingly strident.
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thellama73
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:49 |
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Also, I don't think disapproval is the same thing as intolerance. I disapprove of rap music and I wish it didn't exist. However, I would not deny people the choice to listen to it, or ban it by law. I would just be happier in its absence. I don't think this makes me intolerant of rap music.
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Padraic
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:56 |
Mike, are you as honest with other aspects of your life?
Would you tell a female coworker, "Wow you've put on a lot of weight. Try eating less and getting some exercise or something."?
Genuinely curious.
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Mr ProgFreak
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 12:57 |
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^^ Exactly. I want to live in a free society ... that's not compatible with telling people what to believe, or which music to listen to.
Edited by Mr ProgFreak - July 23 2010 at 12:57
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 13:00 |
The Llama: Disaproval is one thing and it's completely valid, but wanting religion to disappear goes way more than simple disaproval.
I disaprove Rap, believe it's not music,. but as long as people enjoy it, I wouldn't lwant it not to exist.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 23 2010 at 13:01
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