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Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34076
Posted: July 22 2010 at 15:51
no I was just writing something, I dont know how you open youtube videos without write somthing then go to EDIT and post videos their not that I didnot understand your post, but I just wrote som Bulls**t so I could EDIT and then post video
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
Posted: July 22 2010 at 15:52
aginor wrote:
just wanted to share this little segment from Boston Legal ( the best law firm series I know of,
im sure Ivan watches this every weekend )
Used to watch it, it was fascinating the balance between comedy and interesting legal cases, but as the seasons pass, it becomes more and more a parody of itself (IMO of course).
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
Posted: July 22 2010 at 19:00
timothy leary wrote:
the Bible might have errors in it and according to Ivan the Catholic church will correct them for you.............how ridiculous and silly
Thanks for your nice and tolerant words Timothy, but our doctrine is not ridiculous for the vast majority of Christians (Catholics). and the source from which all Christian religions come (again Catholic Church)
But, you are free to believe what you want, I promise I won't call your beliefs ridiculous or silly, being that we are taught to be tolerant.
Cheers
Iván
BTW: Nothing I qiuote is according to me,. I have no authority, in this case it's according to the Catholic Church.
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
Posted: July 22 2010 at 19:31
Yes, I've always been interested in the point of difference between religions, that fact or incident which "proves" that this religion is genuinely divine while the others are manmade falsehoods. I don't think I've ever seen anyone doing this without ending up with belief/faith but they all do that which gets us back to how they're all as ill-supported as each other.
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
Posted: July 22 2010 at 19:54
timothy leary wrote:
If you claim the first book of the Torah has an error in it you just undermined the Jewish religion and if so how does that fare for Christianity??
What is valid for Christians, may not be valid for the Jewish religion, despite the Pope has said (and I quote: God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers.
The Popes have made an interpretation of the Bible not only based in faith, but also in scientific evidence that proves with almost total seccurity, that the earth doesn't have 5,000 years but also that most likely the Evolution Theory is correct.
But, no matter how much respect we feel for our older brothers (as Pope John Paul II called them), we must be faithful to our beliefs.
I'm sure the Jewish community won't change their beliefs for what the Pope say, so we can coexist in perfect peace (as we do), each one with his own beliefs
And please, you are attacking all our belifefs and still you are afraid we undermine the Jewish's beliefs?
Iván
BTW: You believe in Jesus as the Messiah....Doesn't this undermine the beliefs of the Jewishs that the Messiah is still to come?
Despite I believe it doesn't, because Christianity split of Judaism with Jesus:
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
Posted: July 22 2010 at 20:00
Textbook wrote:
Yes, I've always been interested in the point of difference between religions, that fact or incident which "proves" that this religion is genuinely divine while the others are manmade falsehoods. I don't think I've ever seen anyone doing this without ending up with belief/faith but they all do that which gets us back to how they're all as ill-supported as each other.
This doesn't work for Catholics, I have quoted this soe time ago but will have to do it again:
The "Declaration on the relation of the Church to non-Christian religions: Nostra Aetate," (1965) is one of three declarations of Vatican II. 8 It states that:
"[The Christian] God made the whole human race to live over the face of the earth."
"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these [non-Christian] religions."
"God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers..."
"...the [Roman Catholic] Church is the new People of God..."
"...the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation."
So, even when we believe we are the new people of God, we state that the Catholic Church doesn't reject anything holy in other non Christian religions.
I would ask Timothy if other religions or cults are so tolerant.
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Lŕ, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
Posted: July 22 2010 at 20:07
Words are one thing, acts are another one. But it's true that, in 1965, the Catholic Church was much more peaceful than in its previous centuries of existence.
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
Posted: July 22 2010 at 20:19
CPicard wrote:
Words are one thing, acts are another one.
The Pope visited the Mosque of Istambul to apologise for previous acts of the church and here you can read signs of respect for Islam:
“On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shiite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni President of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book the Koran presented to him by the delegation and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam.”
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Lŕ, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
Posted: July 22 2010 at 20:52
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
CPicard wrote:
Words are one thing, acts are another one.
The Pope visited the Mosque of Istambul to apologise for previous acts of the church and shows high, and here are previous signs of respect for Islam:
“On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shiite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni President of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book the Koran presented to him by the delegation and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam.”
You now who attacked this gesture? Some Christian fundamentalists.
Yes, I wanted to talk about this problem: even if the Pope is the authority of the Catholic Church, it won't prevent some catholics to be bigots and show manifestations of intolerance and rejection. The acts I was talking about weren't those of the Pope (who has some diplomatic oblications), but also (and maybe above all) those of the followers of the Catholic Church.
In France, it's well known that some "traditionalist" catholics don't and will never accept the message of tolerance and acceptation preached by the Pope. In Europe, we also saw some catholic priests advocating racist/xenophobic ideas.
So, a spiritual/religious leader can say words which are to be "engraved" in the ideological and philosophical corpus of his cult/religion/church (and, in this context, words are acts), but not all the members of the cult would act (or talk) according to their leader.
I hope my post would clarify my "position" about the message of the Catholic Church and its reception by catholic followers.
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