| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
jampa17 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
|
 Posted: July 20 2010 at 15:06 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
jampa17 wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I've always had a hard time understanding the selfish argument. It's selfish for me to want to keep the money I earn, but it's not selfish for the left to ban everything it disapproves of (smoking, fast food, Republicans) and demand the subsidization of everything it likes (NPR, Amtrak, farmers.)
I once had a boss who wanted cigarettes to be made illegal, because he didn't like them. I asked him if he thought alcohol should be banned as well, and he said "Well no, I like alcohol." Isn't that selfish?
|
Smoking harms those around you, while alcohol does not, so I am 100% unsympathetic to smokers who want to smoke inside. Even if everybody else in the bar or restaurant smokes and those who don't can choose to go somewhere else (although that may be difficult if all bars are smoking), the staff may not be so lucky, and you are killing them slowly because you can't be bothered to go outside. And while I also take issue with our massive farm subsidies, characterizing it as only a liberal issue is incorrect. The 2008 farm bill passed 318-106 and 77-15 and I can't find the totals for the other bills so easily and I'm lazy, but I'm pretty sure the Reps from Ohio, Idaho, Illinois, etc. don't consistently vote against them. |
Apparently you're also unsympathetic to the idea of owning your own property and being able to determine how people can behave within it.
|
But when you have a "Public service" you can't aloud anything you want, because there will be many people in there and the respect of each other rights is the goal right?
I agree with the idea of freedom in your property, but when you offer a public service, you have to submit your freedom to the other ones rights... |
If I own a bar, I should be free to dictate what behavior incurs therein. If you object to breathing in smoke, you can migrate to some bar which has banned it. Just as you don't go to the beach if you wish to avoid the ill effects of the sun, you'll avoid my bar if you wish to avoid the ill effects of 2nd hand smoke.
|
OK... then your workers will die because the were not able to avoid smoke. Yes, the can get another job, but you know, in the perfect world the paper can deal with anything and in real life it isn't. I would avoid your bar, but you have to respect the rights of the people who go to your bar.
|
|
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
|
 |
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 15:08 |
|
A bar is not a public service.
|
|
|
|
Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 15:09 |
thellama73 wrote:
A bar is not a public service.
|
Damn.
|
|
|
|
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 15:11 |
|
|
|
|
|
CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 15:39 |
thellama73 wrote:
A bar is not a public service.
|
Unless it belongs to the state.
|
|
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 15:43 |
CPicard wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
A bar is not a public service.
|
Unless it belongs to the state.
|
Yes, but sadly, my local Federal Reserve building doesn't have a bar, at least not yet.
|
|
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 15:46 |
|
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
|
akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
Status: Offline
Points: 6797
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 15:50 |
^Just how exactly did we get here? ^ 
|
|
Help me I'm falling!
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 15:51 |
akamaisondufromage wrote:
^Just how exactly did we get here? ^ |
Perhaps a French thingy, I don know... 
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 15:58 |
jampa17 wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
jampa17 wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I've always had a hard time understanding the selfish argument. It's selfish for me to want to keep the money I earn, but it's not selfish for the left to ban everything it disapproves of (smoking, fast food, Republicans) and demand the subsidization of everything it likes (NPR, Amtrak, farmers.)
I once had a boss who wanted cigarettes to be made illegal, because he didn't like them. I asked him if he thought alcohol should be banned as well, and he said "Well no, I like alcohol." Isn't that selfish?
|
Smoking harms those around you, while alcohol does not, so I am 100% unsympathetic to smokers who want to smoke inside. Even if everybody else in the bar or restaurant smokes and those who don't can choose to go somewhere else (although that may be difficult if all bars are smoking), the staff may not be so lucky, and you are killing them slowly because you can't be bothered to go outside. And while I also take issue with our massive farm subsidies, characterizing it as only a liberal issue is incorrect. The 2008 farm bill passed 318-106 and 77-15 and I can't find the totals for the other bills so easily and I'm lazy, but I'm pretty sure the Reps from Ohio, Idaho, Illinois, etc. don't consistently vote against them. |
Apparently you're also unsympathetic to the idea of owning your own property and being able to determine how people can behave within it.
|
But when you have a "Public service" you can't aloud anything you want, because there will be many people in there and the respect of each other rights is the goal right?
I agree with the idea of freedom in your property, but when you offer a public service, you have to submit your freedom to the other ones rights... |
If I own a bar, I should be free to dictate what behavior incurs therein. If you object to breathing in smoke, you can migrate to some bar which has banned it. Just as you don't go to the beach if you wish to avoid the ill effects of the sun, you'll avoid my bar if you wish to avoid the ill effects of 2nd hand smoke.
|
OK... then your workers will die because the were not able to avoid smoke. Yes, the can get another job, but you know, in the perfect world the paper can deal with anything and in real life it isn't. I would avoid your bar, but you have to respect the rights of the people who go to your bar. |
Sorry I can't take this post seriously.
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34083
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 16:01 |
|
You know how easy alcohol lead peoples thoughts on too other things, (like ladys/men, cars, food, more alchohol, cigarets, fighting, a night behind bars, headakes the next morning), by the way moslems can't drink alcohol only smoke waterpipes with fruit flaveours,
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 16:52 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
At that time maybe... But now, if your views are "caring for others' welfare", I can just say
 ...
|
So its selfish of me to want women to be able to wear what they chose? Sounds like caring for others lives and decisions to me.
|
The comment follows another one and I generalized. Though in this case, I will concede, my words might be out of place.
|
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 16:56 |
|
|
|
|
|
Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 17:02 |
thellama73 wrote:
Oh really? Alcohol doesn't harm others? What about drunk driving or the abuse to family and friends committed by alcoholics? Anyway, that's beside the point, because his reason for wanting smoking banned was not based on health concerns, but rather on the fact that he just didn't like it.
|
What I meant drinking a beer in the presence of others is not directly harmful to them in the same way smoking is. Alcohol is certainly overall more harmful to society than smoking, but there's no way people are ever going to stop drinking (even though I would prefer they would) so it's pointless to discuss.
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Apparently you're also unsympathetic to the idea of owning your own property and being able to determine how people can behave within it.
|
On the one hand, I can see the libertarian argument for this. On the other hand, f**k smokers and I think that society and the government should do everything in their power to eradicate smoking entirely. This position may not be intellectually consistent.
|
|
if you own a sodastream i hate you
|
|
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 17:04 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Oh really? Alcohol doesn't harm others? What about drunk driving or the abuse to family and friends committed by alcoholics? Anyway, that's beside the point, because his reason for wanting smoking banned was not based on health concerns, but rather on the fact that he just didn't like it.
|
What I meant drinking a beer in the presence of others is not directly harmful to them in the same way smoking is. Alcohol is certainly overall more harmful to society than smoking, but there's no way people are ever going to stop drinking (even though I would prefer they would) so it's pointless to discuss.
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Apparently you're also unsympathetic to the idea of owning your own property and being able to determine how people can behave within it.
|
On the one hand, I can see the libertarian argument for this. On the other hand, f**k smokers and I think that society and the government should do everything in their power to eradicate smoking entirely. This position may not be intellectually consistent. |
Intellectually consistent or not, it made me laugh.
|
|
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 17:22 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Oh really? Alcohol doesn't harm others? What about drunk driving or the abuse to family and friends committed by alcoholics? Anyway, that's beside the point, because his reason for wanting smoking banned was not based on health concerns, but rather on the fact that he just didn't like it.
|
What I meant drinking a beer in the presence of others is not directly harmful to them in the same way smoking is. Alcohol is certainly overall more harmful to society than smoking, but there's no way people are ever going to stop drinking (even though I would prefer they would) so it's pointless to discuss.
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Apparently you're also unsympathetic to the idea of owning your own property and being able to determine how people can behave within it.
|
On the one hand, I can see the libertarian argument for this. On the other hand, f**k smokers and I think that society and the government should do everything in their power to eradicate smoking entirely. This position may not be intellectually consistent. |
People think the same thing about 4chan, The Grapes of Wrath, Eyes Wide Shut. I don't know. I just can't empower government bullies with such abandon
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 18:34 |
^Come on, bullies may be in the top positions in government, but we all know is the geeks and the nerds running the show
Though I agree with not outlawing cigarettes, drugs, prostitution or anything that doesn't directly harm somebody else. As I said at the beginning, my position on burkas was clearly influenced by my position on islam.
|
|
|
|
Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 19:26 |
|
Yeah I have to admit that my anti-burqa thing is probably at heart my anti-religion thing rearing its head.
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 21:33 |
Don't worry all Islamic/religious people are evil and lazy anyway 
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 22:03 |
|
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
French approve ban on burqas...
