Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
|
Posted: July 19 2010 at 20:57 |
JJLehto wrote:
And Rob that would be a mighty uncomfortable pillow
| Well, now, that all depends on if you emptied the cans yourself or not.
|
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: July 19 2010 at 21:06 |
Wait...you would make it out of full cans? Now that is just bizarre, the market for that can't be large at all. And my second paycheck came in today, was too busy to get a chance to open it...let's see. $74 in taxes removed! F*CK THIS SH*T! *joins the tea party*
|
|
Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
|
Posted: July 19 2010 at 21:07 |
JJLehto wrote:
*joins the tea party*
| Just don't write any letters to Abe Lincoln...
|
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: July 19 2010 at 21:11 |
Nah, that's crazy! I'll just make signs calling Obama the N word, and refer to myself as a teabagger
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: July 19 2010 at 21:19 |
JJLehto wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Sadly, I dont have it in front of me from data I've seen I thought things slowly, but steadily got better under FDR, until the late 30's when a backslide occurred. I will admit, FDR's refusal to lower tariffs (that Hoover put in place) probably did contribute to it. That being said, over regulation caused the Great Depression? I do not see how that was the case.
|
A backslide? The 1937 recrash was as bad as 1929. It's the only time in our history we've had two crashes following right after each other. There's not enough time to go into all of FDR's policies which prolonged the depression. Without his policies we could have recovered from the crash in a little over two years, instead we suffered through chronic unemployment into the 40s.
|
Well I already said the Smoot-Hawley Act made the depression worse/prolonged it. Of course I do need to explain this to you, but as tariffs are raised all others react (or retaliate) likewise. The breakdown of trade was a huge factor in the depression. Thanks to Hoover and FDR.
But as I did also say, the economy did recover starting in 1933, which is when it hit its low point. It continued to improve until 1937 when FDR's policies started to be scaled back. These are not made up. Am I wrong? Didn't the economy improve under FDR? His policies were rolled back in 1937, including cutting spending, (deficit spending) and another recession hits. Again, is this coincidence?
Japan was not hit as hard as other places, and they early on adopted was Keyensian policies. Now obviously they had a smaller economy, so... Given all that, maybe FDR's policies were not enough or they were implemented too late
|
How exactly were his policies scaled back? The only resistance to FDR's whim was the Supreme Court which collapse completely after the Court packing scheme caused the swing Justices to switch sides.
Of course the economy started to recover after its low point, that's by definition. The point is that The depression lasted over a decade. Do I have to start citing paper after paper of economic analysis supporting the accepted notion that FDR's policies greatly prolonged the depression?
I would say the main cause of the subsequent crash would be the Baking Act of 1935's centralization of Federal Reserve member banks. In 1936 the Fed board increased mandatory bank reserves by 50%, and then impatient about the result by another 1/3 in 1937. The result was a then dramatic, but now mundane, rise in interest rates.
In addition there were a host of new policies, hardly scaled back, in effect. The Wagner Act's compulsory unionism was taking a large toll with skyrocketing business costs and rampant strikes. The Social Security Payroll tax went into effect in 1937 responsible for around $2 billion dollars being taken out of the private sector. Also, the undistributed profits tax (don't even get me started) went into effect in just 1936.
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: July 19 2010 at 21:26 |
JJLehto wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
In regard to your question...because cutting corners, especially in regards to safety is IMO just wrong. I dont even care what you say about me, rights be damned! If cutting a corner does not infringe on the right of others then whats the problem? I dont know, isn't all this about responsibility? Are you saying as long as it doesn't infringe on others' rights then be as irresponsible as you want?
And no economic incentives? How so? Lets say there is no regulation. I am the CEO of an oil company. I could drill relief wells at the same time as the main one, so if there is an accident they will already be in place. But its not like I have to. So why spend the time and money to do so?
Explain to me why, in an unregulated world, there is no incentive to cut corners? If cutting corners would save some money...why wouldn't they? And Im not trying to attack or anyhting, its just fact. The point of a firm is to maximie profit, so if they can save a bit by cutting a corner why wouldn't they? Especially if there is no one around to monitor them.
|
Suppose I'm building a house for you, if I decide to cut corners by making the foundation out of sand instead of concrete, when the house collapses you will sue me. This is not a very smart business move on my part seeing as I just lost money.
Compare this with acceptable cutting corners. I make pillow cases. I can either double stitch the seams or cut corners and single stitch. I cut corners and single stitch so that I can offer my pillowcase $.50 lower. The consumer who needs not the luxury of two stitches now has a viable economic option. |
OK we're getting theoretical again. In reality, you have to grant there is a difference between single stitching a pillowcase and making a poor foundation. Yes, if YOU were to build me a house that would be stupid to do, but if a large company is doing it, well we all know about the Pinto (or stories like it). Just letting a flaw go ahead, since they calculated it would be cheaper to pay lawsuits/damages than recall and fix it. And maybe not ALL would act irresponsibly, but some will. Some will look only in the short run.
And Rob that would be a mighty uncomfortable pillow
|
Of course there's a difference that's my point. One is an acceptable cutting corners allowed by the market, the other one is unacceptable and shunned by the market. You asked for economic incentives against such irresponsibility and they're all over the place. That's why tort law exists.
The Ford cost benefit analysis was incredibly botched. In one case alone they had to pay the sum of $128 million which was 3x what their cost benefit analysis predicted. The incentive wasn't there. They were just morons and they paid for it.
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 00:21 |
Would prog be bad if it infringed upon the rights and civil liberties of citizens??
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:19 |
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:22 |
You have no idea how sick that comic makes me.
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:26 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
You have no idea how sick that comic makes me.
| I think he might.
|
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:28 |
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:29 |
You have no idea how sick most libertarian views make me,
Yet I enjoy this thread. I learn things about your views of the world...
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:29 |
|
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:41 |
No if he was drinking something, I'd want him to spew out his nostrils.
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:43 |
I do hate that woodchuck, though he is so adorable!
If I really wanted to troll I wish I could find this one picture I saw once. More or less said: In the military? You are a Welfare Queen!
And goes on about all the stuff/benefits they get paid for by the taxpayers.
Of course a joke...but does make me think. Republicans wont shut the f*ck up about all this $ but if someone was to even mention cuts in the defense budget! *gasp* I must be a terrorist.
Maybe ending these 2 wars, pulling out troops form other places, closing some of these bases would skim some cash.
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:43 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
No if he was drinking something, I'd want him to spew out his nostrils.
|
|
|
|
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:52 |
JJLehto wrote:
I do hate that woodchuck, though he is so adorable!
If I really wanted to troll I wish I could find this one picture I saw once. More or less said: In the military? You are a Welfare Queen!
And goes on about all the stuff/benefits they get paid for by the taxpayers.
Of course a joke...but does make me think. Republicans wont shut the f*ck up about all this $ but if someone was to even mention cuts in the defense budget! *gasp* I must be a terrorist.
Maybe ending these 2 wars, pulling out troops form other places, closing some of these bases would skim some cash.
|
I think it's time the wars in the middle east came to an end. Contrary to popular belief, I object to overspending in any area of government and am extremely against bailouts. A certain level of military might must be preserved, so I wouldn't cut the defense budget by too much, but I do not want endless wars and endless occupation.
|
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 13:02 |
The T wrote:
|
Party, party, party, paaaartea!!!!
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 13:03 |
thellama73 wrote:
I think it's time the wars in the middle east came to an end.
Contrary to popular belief, I object to overspending in any area of
government and am extremely against bailouts. A certain level of
military might must be preserved, so I wouldn't cut the defense budget
by too much, but I do not want endless wars and endless occupation.
|
Oh yeah, even a flaming liberal like myself grants there needs to be a military. At the very least we need a standing military, and keep some overseas is not unreasonable. But yeah, besides Iraq and Afghanistan, (which obviously are draining tons of money) I'm thinking the world would survive if were too remove our troops/bases from Europe, Cuba, Australia, places like those. One thing I will give libertarians, I'd like to see a conservative say "cut the defense budget" and not be kicked out of the part or burst into flames. Neo conservatives are what make me sick personally though that damn woodchuck is not far behind!
Edited by JJLehto - July 20 2010 at 13:04
|
|
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: July 20 2010 at 13:06 |
Neo-conservatives are simply liberals in disguise
|
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.