For my Libertarian friends

Epignosis wrote: The T wrote: What one group? Well let's make it more than one: wall street, the banks, the big corporations who lobby everything they want into law...   Then you have a problem with corrupt politicians, not corporations.And look at this "D"-list!

It's that supposed to discourage me or show me something I don't know? I'm no democrat Robert. I have preferred them over the GOP and the tea drinking guys but they are sh*t too. They are not left enough for my taste.

Dodd pissed me the f*ck off.
As did Frank, just like I said...nothing will ever really change and that is the reason.

The liberal politicians are in bed with the same people.
Healthcare was killed by powerful Dems and their $ from the health sector, Chris Dodd put out a wall street reform bill that did flat out sh*t. Almost laughable.

So...how can we get these b*****ds out of office?

For the record, I am a reluctant democrat, and since 2009 becoming more reluctant.
I used to think  I was too left for the Dems but now I know it. Socially is one thing but on the big money issue, they are the same as Reps as far as I am concerned. I dont see a big enough difference anymore between the center-right party and the right party....
Rob put up that list of corrupt Dems? I say no sh*t.


Edited by JJLehto - July 15 2010 at 23:48

^There's no way to do it, the way this system works. Yes, vote them out they'll say. How? They have the money for campaigns and ads, the guys that may be better don't.

Sadly, this word doesn't exist any more, but good where times when people dreamt of revolution.

Edited by The T - July 15 2010 at 23:58

Epignosis wrote: The T wrote: Epignosis wrote: The T wrote: What one group? Well let's make it more than one: wall street, the banks, the big corporations who lobby everything they want into law...   Then you have a problem with corrupt politicians, not corporations.And look at this "D"-list! It's that supposed to discourage me or show me something I don't know? I'm no democrat Robert. I have preferred them over the GOP and the tea drinking guys but they are sh*t too. They are not left enough for my taste. You didn't address what I said.You expressed a problem with corporations, and I showed your problem is really with corrupt politicians, not corporations.

Ok. But the guy giving the money is as much of a piece of sh*t as the guy receiving it, or no?

thellama73 wrote: The T wrote: By the way, a question: do you know if this libertarianism thing is a US-only phenomenon or are there currents that promote it abroad? Much libertarian economic theory came out of Austria (the so called Austrian School) initiated by F. A. Hayek. I think the Austrians don't feel that way so much anymore though. OI have also heard thtat a few southeast Asian countries are pretty Libertarian.

Well economically, hell yes! Are they socially? I honestly don't know. I know singapore has those crazy strict laws that I'd say most view as infringing on personal rights.

^Not a bad point. But it proves again that good people get discouraged and don't run, even for these wrong reasons.

JJLehto wrote: ... we're boned...

Disagree with that I can't.

Epignosis wrote: The T wrote: Epignosis wrote: The T wrote: Epignosis wrote: The T wrote: What one group? Well let's make it more than one: wall street, the banks, the big corporations who lobby everything they want into law...   Then you have a problem with corrupt politicians, not corporations.And look at this "D"-list! It's that supposed to discourage me or show me something I don't know? I'm no democrat Robert. I have preferred them over the GOP and the tea drinking guys but they are sh*t too. They are not left enough for my taste. You didn't address what I said.You expressed a problem with corporations, and I showed your problem is really with corrupt politicians, not corporations. Ok. But the guy giving the money is as much of a piece of sh*t as the guy receiving it, or no? No. I can give my money to whomever I please, and for whatever reason. A representative of the people doesn't have to accept it. It's called integrity.

Agreed. Too bad no one has it. And party has nothing to do with it. I am more convinced it is universal...

The T wrote: Epignosis wrote: The T wrote: Epignosis wrote: The T wrote: Epignosis wrote: The T wrote: What one group? Well let's make it more than one: wall street, the banks, the big corporations who lobby everything they want into law...   Then you have a problem with corrupt politicians, not corporations.And look at this "D"-list! It's that supposed to discourage me or show me something I don't know? I'm no democrat Robert. I have preferred them over the GOP and the tea drinking guys but they are sh*t too. They are not left enough for my taste. You didn't address what I said.You expressed a problem with corporations, and I showed your problem is really with corrupt politicians, not corporations. Ok. But the guy giving the money is as much of a piece of sh*t as the guy receiving it, or no? No.I can give my money to whomever I please, and for whatever reason.A representative of the people doesn't have to accept it.It's called integrity. So if a cop stops me and wants to take me in for, say, running a red light, I can offer him money and not feel bad about it? Good. I wouldn't do it anyway because I also have some integrity. What you're saying is, basically, the famous words of that good movie all over again, the phrase that governs our current economic system: greed is good.

Bribing an officer is illegal.  Donating to a political campaign is not.

That's why it's up to the politician to maintain authority buy not selling out his ideals to the highest bidder.

manofmystery wrote: If you want corporations to have less say in policy then government must have less say in the market.

Now that's a good point.  Sounds fair to me.