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Epignosis

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 14:07

Oh boy.

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

thellama73 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 14:09

Epignosis wrote:

Oh boy.

Yay! Endless recession!

The T

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 14:44

Epignosis wrote:

Oh boy.

No, I say, Great! Clap

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 15:44

Proletariat wrote:

Equality 7-2521 wrote:

RoyFairbank wrote:

Libertarianism claim to be advocates of freedoms and democracy? This shouldn't be automatically accepted.

What are you talking about? First off Libertarianism is in absolutely no way connected with democracy. Secondly, how do Libertarian principles not advocate freedom. On what grounds could you reject that without playing semantical games with "freedom".

RoyFairbank wrote:

Libertarians want to make it more miserable. They demand privilege and individual monopoly be further protected against the interests of the majority, very well, this is not an ideal world for the majority.

Explain please

The problems with libertarianism are similar in nature to those of communism. with complete freedom of trade the capitalist structure would quickly dissolve into an oligarchy in which those with the most money/production power have controll. In this case, unless the oligarchy turnes out to be run by a bunch of kind hearted caretakers, we will be for all intents and purposes at square one with a simple despotism.

Then why don't we see evidence of this occurring in the US in the pre-Civil war era.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 15:46

thellama73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Oh boy.

Yay! Endless recession!

Yay collapse!

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

The T

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 16:05

Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Proletariat wrote:

Equality 7-2521 wrote:

RoyFairbank wrote:

Libertarianism claim to be advocates of freedoms and democracy? This shouldn't be automatically accepted.

Explain please

Then why don't we see evidence of this occurring in the US in the pre-Civil war era.

You Shields of all people are comparing a society from the 19th century with 2010??

Usually you were in the right side of logic at least... Wink

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 16:43

So the laws of economics change with time? That's some weak science right there.

If that's the case then his accusation is completely based on speculation (which I know it is anyway) if past history isn't suitable there's certainly no time to point to where his reported events would have occured.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 16:46

^ everything changes with time, including laws of (take your pick) for instance we freed the slaves and quit burning witches a while back.
Soon gays will serve in the military without shame

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 17:03

So gravity used to be inversely proportional the the cube of the radius? Closed systems used to decrease in entropy? The Supply Curve was a circle? Root 2 used to be rational? If the laws of science are so fickle as our laws of government we have a problem.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

CPicard

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 17:28

We could say the laws of economics change if we keep in mind that the "nature" of economical relationships have evolved to more and more complex situations.
But it's just a way to talk about complex things with simple words in short sentences.

The T

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 19:12

Equality 7-2521 wrote:

So gravity used to be inversely proportional the the cube of the radius? Closed systems used to decrease in entropy? The Supply Curve was a circle? Root 2 used to be rational? If the laws of science are so fickle as our laws of government we have a problem.

You're very closed-minded now Equality. Don't equate laws of physics with laws of economics which have direct relation with SOCIAL changes... Please, second time in a day.

If you really think economics of the 1800s apply today, and these laws never change, then I guess what was real in the middle ages could also be applied today... Go figure.

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 19:46

The T wrote:

You're very closed-minded now Equality. Don't equate laws of physics with laws of economics which have direct relation with SOCIAL changes... Please, second time in a day.

If you really think economics of the 1800s apply today, and these laws never change, then I guess what was real in the middle ages could also be applied today... Go figure.

You're being ignorant more than I'm being closed minded. Although economic behavior changes, the overall laws which are the foundation of our analysis do not. Otherwise it could hardly be called a science.

Could you give me an example of how SOCIAL change affects a fixture of economics?

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

The T

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 19:59

Equality 7-2521 wrote:

The T wrote:

You're very closed-minded now Equality. Don't equate laws of physics with laws of economics which have direct relation with SOCIAL changes... Please, second time in a day.

If you really think economics of the 1800s apply today, and these laws never change, then I guess what was real in the middle ages could also be applied today... Go figure.

Could you give me an example of how SOCIAL change affects a fixture of economics?

Ok, laws are constant, I see where we are having the problem. Laws are constant, but the people and society you're going to apply it on or study with are NOT. You're not naive Equality (funny name for you now that I think of it - are you a socialist at heart?) Tongue

so you know you're applying logic and even semantics to answer a question that has other variables. Yes, I give you this: laws don't change. But societies do, and what was successful back then may not be successful today. You know what we're saying Shields, you're just pretending we're saying something else.

EDIT: by the way, before you waste time and finger skin, I DO know what your nickname means...

Edited by The T - July 15 2010 at 20:04

Epignosis

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 20:10

Socialism never promotes equality- only a caricature of it.

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 20:13

The T wrote:

Equality 7-2521 wrote:

The T wrote:

You're very closed-minded now Equality. Don't equate laws of physics with laws of economics which have direct relation with SOCIAL changes... Please, second time in a day.

If you really think economics of the 1800s apply today, and these laws never change, then I guess what was real in the middle ages could also be applied today... Go figure.

Could you give me an example of how SOCIAL change affects a fixture of economics?

EDIT: by the way, before you waste time and finger skin, I DO know what your nickname means...

That's not the case at all. My point is still correct and valid. His statement was a non-sensical strawman argument against capitalism. He should provide some evidence as to why those conditions didn't occur when we had the freest markets in our history. I don't see how societal issues have an bearing on this argument. If they do; please demonstrate how.

EDIT: I used to be a socialist actually.

Edited by Equality 7-2521 - July 15 2010 at 20:14

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Finnforest View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 20:18

Pat, you were a socialist? Tell us about the transformation....when....why.....etc Tongue

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 20:26

I idolized FDR and Wilson when I first became interested in politics in the 7th grade. Throughout high school I became really influence by Eugene Debs and Ricardian and agrarian socialists especially Hodgskin. Around my senior year I started to part with the ideology because of conflicts I was having with economic calculation of Socialist societies.

I then became a part of the Neo-con movement for around a year before I made the the shift into paleoconservativism to where I am today.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Finnforest View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 20:30

Interesting. I think that's cool you were thinking about this stuff so young....i didn't give a rip about politics until well after HS.

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 20:36

I didn't like the idea that adults had this subject that they talked about constantly but I knew nothing about and learned nothing about in school

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Epignosis

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Posted: July 15 2010 at 20:45

Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I idolized FDR and Wilson when I first became interested in politics in the 7th grade.

I was the same way, although my interest in politics didn't happen until I was about 16.

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays