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Gandalff View Drop Down
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Points: 4214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2010 at 23:25
Originally posted by DT-PT DT-PT wrote:

I don't understand why exactly this thread was made. Was this just to hate on American prog?
Maybe somebody hates American inflation. Their philosophy "WeŽre center of The Earth".Wink
 
(Some reports did show it here...)
 
We have a proverb in my country: Kicked goose always exclaims!Clap
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 09:13
Originally posted by DT-PT DT-PT wrote:

I don't understand why exactly this thread was made. Was this just to hate on American prog?

Actually, I thought it was to contrast and compare.Wink
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:



So were the Monkees.

I was a huge fan as a kid.  The movie Head was rather cool.  Cameo appearance by Zappa. Big smile


Edited by Slartibartfast - July 07 2010 at 09:16
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 17863 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 10:45
Weird post...really who cares US vs UK??
 
The first molecule of progressive music is......
 
 
Everything is built around the blues.......
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Points: 1601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 12:17
UK and US we're pretty neck in neck in prog (but UK has the Canterbury scene which alone makes them beat the US in my mind), but America wrecked in the late sixties psych scene.  Theres thousands of unheard of band from America at that time that are all amazing when you actually discover them.  America also gets credit for the blues, which is the basis of all good music.

Edited by himtroy - July 07 2010 at 12:18
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Points: 4338 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 13:18
Originally posted by Isa Isa wrote:

As far as major classic prog bands go, Kansas is the only well known one to produce prog from my home country, and they weren't even all American (correct me if I'm wrong...). I think it might have something to do with America's overemphasis on money as a end rather than the means of producing art. To make the most money you cheapen the product, so I'm sure many classic prog composers that might have been huge in Europe were given no attention in America. I could just see some American teens hearing the classic prog from Britain and form a band in that vein, but since record companies in America were ten years ahead in the commercialism aspect, they died before they could even develop. That's the only theory I have.


I have been saying that for years. Here in So Cal in the mid 70's we had several bands playing symphonic prog and none of them ever got a deal.  They were all pretty good too.  

As for Kansas it took the best of three different bands to form one that made it.  That and free beer! Wink


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Points: 2506 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 05:30
American prog in the seventies was misarable. Let's face it. Germany, Holland, France and especially Italy were far more productive. They were however good in making metal and progressive metal from the nineties on.

However, often forgotton is the very progressive psychedelic scene of Amerika. Bands like United States of America, West Coast Pop Experimental Band (if remember it correctly), The Doors and many others.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 06:40
Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

American prog in the seventies was misarable. Let's face it. Germany, Holland, France and especially Italy were far more productive. They were however good in making metal and progressive metal from the nineties on.


Not really true.  Santana was at his proggiest in the early '70's.  Some of Zappa's finest was made in the '70's, Weather Report, Dixie Dregs, Utopia, Starcastle, Happy The Man, Oregon, Shadowfax, David Sancious, Synergy, Electromagnets, Steve Tibbetts, Automatic Man, The Muffins, Return To Forever, Pat Metheny, Larry Coryell.  Granted heavy on the jazz/rock fusion.  And I was scrolling down my list, to be sure, UK outnumbers US by something like 4:1 in my collection.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 10:06
Originally posted by Gandalff Gandalff wrote:

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

It depends which sub genres you're talking about. America blazed something of a trail for RIO/Avant prog, mainly via Zappa and Beefheart (to say nothing of Sun Ra), and was pretty much the cradle of jazz-rock fusion. Then there's the Residents, the whole John Zorn downtown scene in New York and a thriving RIO scene that has gone from strength to strength since the 80s.
 
On the other hand, it's difficult to think of any American Zeuhl and the US contribution to Krautrock was pretty much limited to early Can vocalist Malcolm Mooney.
I mean that main and most popular subgenres are Symphonic, Psychedelic/Space, Neo and Heavy Prog.There is the strength and, without doubt, dominion of British bands. RIO/Avant is a marginal subgenre for a few of intellectuals, why weŽll entertain false hopes? The same is true for Zeuhl or Krautrock.
 
Another things are Jazz Rock/Fusion or Prog Metal. Yes, there is significant dominion of U.S. bands.
 
But I constantly assert that United Kingdom is a cradle of Prog Rock!
The UK may once have been but have you heard much modern prog from the UK? Most of it isnt worth bothering with and though there are several good bands, none of them are particularly unique, apeing their sound and style from both the classic bands of the 70's and the Neo prog bands of the 80's and early 90's.
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Points: 34055 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 10:18
well GB have their roots in celtic folk music and midle age troubadour music, wile America or US have their roots in raggetime, blues, country, native american songs, I take celtic influence over raggetime any time their is something spessial with the neo-celtic folk influnce blended with neo-middleage troubador music which in the end is the reason I like bands like Genesis, Gentle Giant, Yes, Jethro Tull, Supertramp and Camel, and that is the reason why Kansas is one of my favourite bands becoue of the mix of Britsh and American music influence
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 10:19
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

Originally posted by Gandalff Gandalff wrote:

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

It depends which sub genres you're talking about. America blazed something of a trail for RIO/Avant prog, mainly via Zappa and Beefheart (to say nothing of Sun Ra), and was pretty much the cradle of jazz-rock fusion. Then there's the Residents, the whole John Zorn downtown scene in New York and a thriving RIO scene that has gone from strength to strength since the 80s.
 
On the other hand, it's difficult to think of any American Zeuhl and the US contribution to Krautrock was pretty much limited to early Can vocalist Malcolm Mooney.
I mean that main and most popular subgenres are Symphonic, Psychedelic/Space, Neo and Heavy Prog.There is the strength and, without doubt, dominion of British bands. RIO/Avant is a marginal subgenre for a few of intellectuals, why weŽll entertain false hopes? The same is true for Zeuhl or Krautrock.
 
Another things are Jazz Rock/Fusion or Prog Metal. Yes, there is significant dominion of U.S. bands.
 
But I constantly assert that United Kingdom is a cradle of Prog Rock!
The UK may once have been but have you heard much modern prog from the UK? Most of it isnt worth bothering with and though there are several good bands, none of them are particularly unique, apeing their sound and style from both the classic bands of the 70's and the Neo prog bands of the 80's and early 90's.


Well said! Clap

Gandalff, your opinion of prog rock is skewed beyond belief. Prog isn't just about the 70's anymore! 1970 was 40 years ago! Prog has changed tremendously since then, and to deny the boatloads of quality American symphonic bands (Kansas, Echolyn, Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, to name a few) is just close-minded. Prog isn't about popularity, it's almost the contrary. I really don't feel like dealing with elitists such as yourself... Ermm

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J-Man View Drop Down
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 10:21
Originally posted by DT-PT DT-PT wrote:

I don't understand why exactly this thread was made. Was this just to hate on American prog?


It sure looks that way! LOL

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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 11:19
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

American prog in the seventies was misarable. Let's face it. Germany, Holland, France and especially Italy were far more productive. They were however good in making metal and progressive metal from the nineties on.


Not really true.  Santana was at his proggiest in the early '70's.  Some of Zappa's finest was made in the '70's, Weather Report, Dixie Dregs, Utopia, Starcastle, Happy The Man, Oregon, Shadowfax, David Sancious, Synergy, Electromagnets, Steve Tibbetts, Automatic Man, The Muffins, Return To Forever, Pat Metheny, Larry Coryell.  Granted heavy on the jazz/rock fusion.  And I was scrolling down my list, to be sure, UK outnumbers US by something like 4:1 in my collection.


Ok, that brings up another good point...USA had the better jazz fusion scene and UK the better prog rock scene, if the distinction makes sense.  The prog metal and modern symph sees USA play a more significant role, but could it not be argued that Sweden is the most dominant in that scene?  Either way, USA has never been right at the top at any point in prog's evolution though they have produced many great prog artists.  In the 70s, it was Britain, France, Germany and Italy.
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 11:21
^ Sweden and USA are both neck and neck in modern prog IMO. In prog metal, Sweden may have the edge, but in symphonic USA has more great bands. 

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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 12:15
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

American prog in the seventies was misarable. Let's face it. Germany, Holland, France and especially Italy were far more productive. They were however good in making metal and progressive metal from the nineties on.


Not really true.  Santana was at his proggiest in the early '70's.  Some of Zappa's finest was made in the '70's, Weather Report, Dixie Dregs, Utopia, Starcastle, Happy The Man, Oregon, Shadowfax, David Sancious, Synergy, Electromagnets, Steve Tibbetts, Automatic Man, The Muffins, Return To Forever, Pat Metheny, Larry Coryell.  Granted heavy on the jazz/rock fusion.  And I was scrolling down my list, to be sure, UK outnumbers US by something like 4:1 in my collection.


Ok, that brings up another good point...USA had the better jazz fusion scene and UK the better prog rock scene, if the distinction makes sense.  The prog metal and modern symph sees USA play a more significant role, but could it not be argued that Sweden is the most dominant in that scene?  Either way, USA has never been right at the top at any point in prog's evolution though they have produced many great prog artists.  In the 70s, it was Britain, France, Germany and Italy.

Yeah I was noticing how much the artists I listed are JRF and hey now, Soft Machine was obviously influenced by US jazz. 

I'd agree with that except you seem to be excluding JRF from prog rock. Wink  I've been collecting prog regardless of the country of origin, but with an apparent bias to US stuff and apparently an even bigger one to UK stuff.  I think the cross pollination of modern music between US and UK has been a great thing for music, prog or not.

I should that note that celtic folk music has been an influence on US folk and bluegrass.
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 12:17
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


I'd agree with that except you seem to be excluding JRF from prog rock. Wink


That's why I myself asked a question whether such a distinction made sense.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 12:18
Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:

^ Sweden and USA are both neck and neck in modern prog IMO. In prog metal, Sweden may have the edge, but in symphonic USA has more great bands. 


This doesn't have anything to do with Metalocalypse?
http://www.adultswim.com/shows/metalocalypse/index.html
I always got the impression that some of the characters are Swedish or some other sort of Scandinavian area types.  I hope Sweden is considered part of the Scandan Navy and I just didn't make a goof.
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 12:20
This is a stupid thread. Who the hell cares? I don't base my enjoyment or standards of music on geographical location. 
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Points: 251 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 12:34
I think the original post was about right. Much of  the classic prog of old was predominantly UK, but in recent times USA have produced the goods. I am happy whoever makes good music, wherever they are Hug
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 13:01
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


I'd agree with that except you seem to be excluding JRF from prog rock. Wink


That's why I myself asked a question whether such a distinction made sense.


Myself I disagree strongly with this distinction, but many people here use it and I can understand their reasons. For me it's all progressive, whether be it of the jazz kind, the heavy rock one, the classical one or the psychedelic one (etc.)
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2010 at 13:31
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

This is a stupid thread. Who the hell cares? I don't base my enjoyment or standards of music on geographical location. 

In defense of this thread, I don't get that at all.  My enjoyment of the music I like is partly determinant on where I am and where I am from.  I've always taken this thread as more of a compare and contrast opportunity.  And never having been to the UK, I still find it interesting that UK artists totally dominate my collection.
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