Stevie Wonder for Progressive Motown

micky wrote: Dean wrote: micky wrote: Chris S wrote: That's a shame Micky. I beg to differ on that front without offering reams of evidence to support my opinion. only passing on what I hear Chris... for whatever it's worth.  People can get defensive and sure some keyboard warriors will take issue what I am saying and flame me hard.. or people can  look long and hard at what can be done to improve the site.  Lord knows I've put my time and effort into the site to still care how the site is seen and perceived. Come on then Micky, let's not beat about the bush and state unsubstantiated generalities, bring in some specifics to support your stance. As you know Chris, Brian, Olav and myself are pretty inclusive when it comes to additions (okay, me less so now-a-days as the "quality" of some of these suggestions has diminished over the years). If this site is being laughed at for being exclusive, by whom? - from what we've seen the reverse is true (Progressor Magazine for example). If the additions policy is broken, enlighten us. my stance?  No.. not my stance.  Dean... I am only pointing out what I have heard. I sure don't have an axe to grind. Only a sense  in that I saw this happening some years back when I saw collabs disappear... genre teams empty..  or with barely anyone at home.   Figured it was only a matter of time before enough bands didn't get added for people to notice.  Take it for what it's worth. As Raff noted.. people.. bands are noticing that bands fall through the cracks...  take months to get added because people can not agree on a subgenre... or can't agree if they are prog or not. If the site doesn't think that is a problem... or wants to think there is no problem at all... then it is what it is.  Not taking anything away from the people who work their asses off...  but shouldn't the site be trying to make their job easier.

Well, perspective: in December 2009 we had over 70 suggestions to evaluate in Crossover. I seconded Guigo to help out and over the past year have changed the voting rules to allow non-team members to be included in the process and given free-passes to moves from other AR subs. Since December we have cleared/rejected/added dozens of artists and still the "new" list sits at 50 artists to be evaluated. We get several new suggestions per week so the list never decreases at the rate we can clear it. Of course some of those bands will sit there for years, Taman Shud have just been cleared and they were one of the bands suggested by Coops back in 2007 when the team was first formed because we couldn't find samples back then. This is not reluctance or laziness on our part, it is not lack of man-power anymore since the Xover team has 4 active members and many collabs help out in finding stuff, writing bios and adding bands. The truth is there are a hell of a lot of wannabe prog bands out there who want to be included on this site because it is good publicity for them - not all those bands are really Prog, even if they do think so themselves.

AtomicCrimsonRush wrote: I hope this is a freaking joke - If Stevie W gets on here we will be laughed out of the prog convention society  and our corpses will be hung up to dry as the masses throw rotten tomatoes at our emaciated frames...

Edited by Rabid - July 10 2010 at 09:57

Micky, lighten up, this was never supposed to be a serious discussion in any stretch of the imagination. But we who care about this site enough will voice our opinions at the risk of being flamed. I will continue to post reviews here and haunt the sites forum as long as I care about the site. Flaming respective members here is not going to win any favours from anyone. We are entitled to our opinion. I likek what Dean said here that it is really impossible to add every suggestion, this would be simply not feasible and it will never happen. As a case inpoint Stevie W is an OUTLANDISH SUGGESTION - furthermore if a prog website were adding ridiculous suggestions as this, it would lose any credibility. And who are these so-called bands who are waiting months to get on here? Name one!

jammun wrote: As always, let me tell a little story that might provide some perspective here.   'Round about 1972, my roommates and I were about as rabid progressive listeners as it could get.  ELP, Yes, Arthur Brown, KC, etc.  That's what was playing in the house.  When those weren't on the stereo, well the guitar player was practicing Bach.  When Bach, after time, was too tame, we dragged out Rite of Spring.   So one roomie shows up one day with Music of My Mind.  We nearly laugh him out of the house.  Stevie Wonder?  Ya gotta be kidding.  But no, he insists we listen, sez it ain't that Motown crap anymore.  (Tangent, I have since come to appreciate that Motown crap, but that's another thread.)  In any case, the album comes to grow on us.  I've been a Stevie Wonder fan ever since.  Said roomie later worked with Stevie extensively, doing synth programming for him.   Said roomie also showed up one day with an album by Chick Corea, Light As a Feather.  We laughed at that one too, at first.    I'll not argue whether or not Stevie belongs here.  Obviously, we can find pure jazz fusion on most of his albums.  But hell, I can find pure psychedelic prog on a Joe Walsh album.   Whatever.  Stevie, Elton.  Realistically these were some of the most successful and influential musicians of the '70s, who, whether we'll admit it or not publically, were making some of the most 'progressive' music of the time.  Note that I did not say 'progressive rock'.

Edited by Rabid - July 10 2010 at 11:08

Alitare wrote: AtomicCrimsonRush wrote: Micky, lighten up, this was never supposed to be a serious discussion in any stretch of the imagination. But we who care about this site enough will voice our opinions at the risk of being flamed. I will continue to post reviews here and haunt the sites forum as long as I care about the site. Flaming respective members here is not going to win any favours from anyone. We are entitled to our opinion. I likek what Dean said here that it is really impossible to add every suggestion, this would be simply not feasible and it will never happen. As a case inpoint Stevie W is an OUTLANDISH SUGGESTION - furthermore if a prog website were adding ridiculous suggestions as this, it would lose any credibility. And who are these so-called bands who are waiting months to get on here? Name one! Prove to me that Stevie Wonder is such an outlandish suggestion. What makes it so outlandish and crazy? What makes him less prog than Nine Inch Nails, Nightwish, Radiohead, etc?

actually no, hes not that outlandish when it comes to it... now, how about my suggestion that we have Blondie here.. I mean, come on she has proggy elements - what about Rapture, Atomic, and Heart of Glass? While we're at it what about The Sweet? They are proggy, just listen to the long version of "Love is Like Oxygen" that piano solo is wonderful, and "Sweet FA" has heaps of time sig changes, as does "The Six Teens".... come on admins - let's put everybody up here with a whiff of prog....see what I mean?  

Truly Madly deeply

Rabid wrote: Put it this way..........I've never heard Nine Inch Nails do a Motown song.   So.....as far as I believe, then Yes.

Edited by Snow Dog - July 10 2010 at 11:19

Dean wrote: Alitare wrote: What makes him less prog than Nine Inch Nails, Nightwish, Radiohead, etc? Out of idle curiosity, do you approve of NIN and Radiohead being in Crossover? (I don't care what you think of Nightwish in PM)

Fundamentally, I can accept any movement, anywhere, for any band. Rush for RIO/avante? Sure thing!

I feel that, based on Crossover's ideal, and the substance of Radiohead's work (mainly for OK Computer/Kid A/Amnesiac), they definitely belong there. NIN, not as much, but still, the fusion between ambient and rock is fairly progressive in my feelings, so I see the relevance of both. But, Eno has been doing that sort of thing since before Before and After Science. Stevie Wonder was fusing tons of styles together, some with motown, and he was doing all sorts of sonic exploration (albeit hardly at the same capacity as sir Eno) at the same time as he was.

Snow Dog wrote: Rabid wrote: Put it this way..........I've never heard Nine Inch Nails do a Motown song.   So.....as far as I believe, then Yes.  So let me understand this. Because NIN, Radiohead and who was it? Nightwish? Din't have a motown background it means they have a progressive background? So every artist is progressive who doesn't have a motown background.

Rabid wrote: Snow Dog wrote: Rabid wrote: Put it this way..........I've never heard Nine Inch Nails do a Motown song.   So.....as far as I believe, then Yes.  So let me understand this. Because NIN, Radiohead and who was it? Nightwish? Din't have a motown background it means they have a progressive background? So every artist is progressive who doesn't have a motown background.   That's not what I said. I was referring to the specific bands in question.   Listen up !!

Edited by Snow Dog - July 10 2010 at 13:28